Running Long hood

[Anonymous]

This may have come up before but I am new to Classic Trains site... but for some of you who were around when diesels first appeared here is the question.
I see photos and videos with Geeps etc. running lond hood.
Why did they start out running that way then make the logical switch to running short hooded? Short hooded obviously gives better vision for the shorter distance (dosen't it?).

Any help on this one.

[Anonymous]

From what I've heard, the reason some roads started out running long hood forward was because in the early days of diesels steam was getting phased out and most crews were used to operating steam locomotives. With steam engines, you have a big boiler sticking out in front of you (with the exception of cab forwards). Being used this, many felt more comfortable running long hood forward because in the event of a collision, there would be less of a chance of getting killed or seriously hurt.

[cnw4001]

While I can't claim to speak for the railroads, generally I understood it to be considered a safety feature for the crew having the long hood as protection in a crash.

Someone may correct me but if I understand it correctly the engines are now designed to have the frame "fail" behind the cab in the event of a crash and thus keep the cab intact and offer protection for the crew.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater

From what I've heard, the reason some roads started out running long hood forward was because in the early days of diesels steam was getting phased out and most crews were used to operating steam locomotives. With steam engines, you have a big boiler sticking out in front of you (with the exception of cab forwards). Being used this, many felt more comfortable running long hood forward because in the event of a collision, there would be less of a chance of getting killed or seriously hurt.

[#ditto] This has always been my understanding as well.

[red p]

well, the main reason they dont run long hood anymore is because of the exhaust fumes. Breathing that stuff everyday for 30 years was not very healthy.
And the carrier got sick and tired of the lawsuits surrounding it. We were running long hood when I started and it is not very pleasant.
Now lead engines cannot be run long hood forward for more than 5 miles (on road jobs anyway)that does not apply to yard jobs and locals.

There was also another issue. It seemed to be a factor in most wrecks. It has been said that every wreck on the old N&W involved a lead motor running long hood forward. As visibility is restricted, its not too bad on straight track, but it sucks in the curves
P

[csmith9474]

The N&W indeed ran their diesels long hood forward because of safety concerns. The controls on some locomotives were configured especially for operating this way. One of the main concerns were rock slides from what I have been told.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

On first-generation road switchers, most Eastern roads had them set up for the long hood as forward. Safety concerns may have been a reason, visibility was not really restricted when compared to steam.

N&W, VGN and maybe a few other roads were willing to pay for dual controls so it didn't matter which end was leading on those roads since the engineer could always be on the correct side.

Consider an SD45 running long hood forward. It did occur on N&W, SR, EL and perhaps others.

[AntonioFP45]

Even through the 1980s Norfolk and Western and the Southern Railway still ran a number of their units long hood forward with a good number of the hood locomotives having high noses, including SD40s, SD45s and GE U-Boats. Collision safety was the principal reason. Ironic that these two railroads merged together.

A number of these rare high nosed units still survive today on regional carriers. The Georgia Central has some high nosed U-Boats that came from one of these roads.

[route_rock]

We have a few SD-9s left over here at BNSF that are high hood and still have their dual control stands ! I rode a NS SD-60 with the control stand on the conductor side ( that discombobulated me to no end!) and it was set up with an F on the long hood end still.

[PBenham]

The holdouts in the long hood forward brigade (SR, N&W) had to give up on the long hood forward for reasons of cost and no others. Granted, a GE dash 8 or dash9 or, an EMD SD70MACe/DC-2, has little visibility running that way what with their radiator fan overhang being what it is.

[TrainFreak409]

Not only would a modern day diesel with large radiator fans have limited visibility running long nose forwards. That would look plain old silly. The cabs are designed to give both the maximum visibility, and to be as safe as possible. And from pictures I've seen, wide cab diesels do stand up much better compared to standard cab diesels.

Personally, with first generation diesels, especially SD7s and 9s, they looked best running long nose forwards.

Couldn't shields be added that deflected the exhaust more upwards to prevent it from reaching the cab?

[wgnrr]

Some engines actually have the long nosed end designated as the front. Over here at Mid-Continet RY Museum, they have a MILW RSC-2, which has the long end saying "F" for front. I never saw a GP with this, but alot of ALCO's RS series engines had this. Also EMD's SW series had that. I heard a story a while ago, which I personally don't believe, but it could be true. My dad told me the reason they operate long nose first is because when you are switching in a yard, you are constantly stoping and starting the engine. When you are going over a crossing, and there is a car that saw you go the other way. When you go back towards the crossing, and the car hits you, you don't get hurt. It hits the wrong end. You may think this is true, but it depends on your opinion.

[zardoz]

Ironically, as far as safety goes, on the older hood units, there was no real safety factor when running short hood forward. The sheet metal that comprises the hood is merely bolted or welded onto the frame. During a collision, many times the object being struck (traincar, tractor-trailer) would simply ride up over the frame and cru***he cab (and anyone in it). The same thing would happen during a collision running long-hood forward, but the energy necessary to remove the prime mover from the frame was usually enough to cause the impact energy to deflect sideways (or be absorbed).

The design of the "safety cab" includes collision posts in the nose that are supposed to prevent this from happening.

[rrandb]

Here in Kansas City, MO we still see several high short hood units in both yard and trailing on main line trains for NS. I have even seen them in shared power consist around town. Does anyone know if they continued to order long hood forward controls as long as they ordered the high short hoods [?]