Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo....literally

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Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo....literally
Posted by Miningman on Saturday, September 5, 2020 1:21 AM

Here we have two torpedo tubed GP9's so equipped identifying it for passenger service on the turntable in Toronto. They are getting ready to take the overnight sleeper service, coaches and head end to the Big Apple but first to Hamilton their home rails then on to Buffalo where it's handed off to the New York Central. 

The TH&B, Canadian Pacific and New York Central pooled power in this service. 

402_403 at CPR John Street roundhouse. These units will be dispatched on Number 329 
the "Buffalo" an overnight sleeper train to New York City. 
Leaving Union Station 7.35 P.M. Daily. 

Note: 401, 402, 403 equipped with ATC.

Here is the Canadian Pacific coming in from Buffalo with the overnight train from NEw York City.

A CPR Royal Hudson no less, late in the game too ! Nov. 1959 

Pretty decent sized consist. Likely did not see this train as early Sunday morning but I can bet you dollars to donuts I heard it.  We lived close by about 35 minutes earlier than where it is in this pic and there was plenty of whistling going thru Burlington.

2857 rapidly accelerating eastbound from Sunnyside with "Buffalo". (No. 324 Sunday Only due at Sunnyside 9.04 A.M. which is 30 minutes later than No. 322 Daily ex Sunday. These trains carried sleepers originating in New York, Boston, Pittsburg and Cleveland). Note the lack of traffic on Lake Shore Boulevard West in "Toronto The Good" on this Sunday morning in November 1959. Dave Page

 

Here we have the New York Central in charge today. 1963, it's still a pretty decent consist.

I lived in the far right distance around that curve. It was always a thrill to see who was pulling the train today. But by 1963 my hopes of any steam returning had largely faded but I still held out hope that I would catch one someday.

NYC 4042 EMD E8A leads TH&B 372 from Hamilton to Welland and Buffalo enroute to New York City. This equipment ran through from Buffalo to Toronto over the NYC to Welland, TH&B to Hamilton and CPR CNR Joint Section although the diesels were changed at Hamilton. Stoney Creek, Ont. 8/21/1963 Peter Cox

 

1968 and it's obviously not what it once was but still some sleepers and heavyweights at that!

Soon thereafter it became RDCs only, a pair, no sleepers and a long wait in Buffalo for connections.

A few years later and the "Buffalo" is much reduced in importance as depicted here leaving Toronto Union 
with a single A unit 4095 with REA express on the headend and old heavweights behind. 

6/1968 Mike Schafer/Joseph Testagrose Collection 

RDC-2 9115 and RDC-4 92?? Central Terminal Buffalo November 1971 Mike Harrington 

 

Night sleeper service between Toronto, Buffalo and New York City ended when decrepid Penn Central equipment was replaced with CPR RDC equipment on a day time schedule between Toronto and Buffalo.
First train was #321 on October 25, 1970 with RDC-4 9251 and RDC-2 9103. This lone train carried on jointly with Penn Central (which had been created February 1/1968), Conrail (April 1/1976), CP Rail (100% ownership of TH&B, April 19/1977) and finally VIA Rail in 1978 until its last run on April 25,1981.

One more pic. I would be remiss if I did not add one at Hamilton. This is the TH&B Art Deco station on Hunter Street. It has been fully restored and is now a GO train terminal.

Nice mix showing the NYC and TH&B power together. I miss this train a lot!

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, September 5, 2020 9:48 AM

Nice shots Vince!  Thanks for posting them!

That photo of the CP steamer in "full cry" is classic!  

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, September 5, 2020 3:51 PM

PC actually rebuilt a pair of ex-PRR Rapids Budd 10-6 sleepers (as Toronto Islands and Toronto Harbour) to meet CPR's requirements.  Connections, cash flow and a bunch of other things got in the way before the work on the cars was complete.  After CP substituted RDCs there was no going back.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, September 5, 2020 4:48 PM

Interesting. I remember that being mentioned before. Do you think they were deliberately dragging their feet or CP just took advantage of a situation? It sure seemed to suit the needs of both Penn Central and Canadian Pacific. I'm sure this was a pain in the pocketbook. 

Hard to believe you couldn't get an overnight sleeper from Toronto to New York City. I did travel in the original with my folks as a wee gaffer, I remember the plush bench seats because my legs did not reach the floor and have one vivid glimpse in memory of setting foot in Grand Central. 

Canadian Pacific's Chicago Express was already long gone by the time the RDC's took over so this was an opportunity to shed that New York train and cede everything over to Canadian National.

So did they ever complete or use Toronto Islands and Toronto Harbour and put them in service somewhere else? 

Did they take the u out of Harbour or just rename the car entirely. 

I saw one of what must have been the last of its trips before the RDCs after High School one day. A very short train, 3 or 4 cars, with one Penn Central car marked as such, must have been ex New York Central from the Great Stainless Steel Armada. 

I had seen this train darn near daily since Grade 1. That sort of went away in High School because your mind is elsewhere, being cool and the gals and all that. 

I do recall it took me a minute and said to myself "That can't be the New York train". It was a while since I saw it last and it suddenly hit me that what I just saw was my old pal. The power was CPR in maroon and grey a F7 or FP9. Only 1 unit. It was 2 miles to the station yet and was going at a good clip. The lights in the Penn Central car made it look pretty cozy inside.

Of course I fondly recall it's years behind TH&B Hudsons and CPR Pacifics and Hudsons. TH&B Hudsons disappeared early but my mom would walk with me up to the station, not far away, and watch 'my train' come in. Sometimes a 6400 CNR Northern would fly by on the outside track... now that was something! 

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, September 5, 2020 7:34 PM

As far as I know both Toronto Islands and Toronto Harbour (still with the "u") made it into Amtrak ownership, but neither lasted long enough to get HEP conversion.  Toronto Islands is at the RR Museum of Pennsylvania in Amtrak Phase I paint, to be restored as PRR Scioto Rapids.  Toronto Harbour is in private ownership.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, September 5, 2020 8:39 PM

Well that sounds like a fairy tale ending.  Glad they are both still with us, 'u' or no 'u'. The sleepers that never were! 

Late edit. -- Go Islanders! First Conference Final appearance in 27 years.  Tampa Bay vs. New York Islanders ... in Edmonton!?!

 

Must be a 2020 thing.

I'm going to venture a guess no one in Tampa Bay even knows where Edmonton is and not that many in New York ( Gretzky and Mark Messier fans only) 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, September 6, 2020 1:07 AM

Miningman
I'm going to venture a guess no one in Tampa Bay even knows where Edmonton is and not that many in New York

Probably more than you think in New York at least ... Edmonton is perhaps the most famous city in hockey to some of us ... I have been both an acquired Rangers fan and an Islanders fan from fairly early on.

Let's Go Islanders!!! (horn signal on Cadillac follows)

[Of course it is a good thing that nobody produces an empty map of Canada and a pointer and asks that I point out exactly where Edmonton is... Dunce]

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, September 6, 2020 1:19 AM

Mike knows!..he wrote in ( this is sarcasm in case you don't get it)

Don't be silly, Edmundton is famous, it's in one of your western providences. 

 
What would you get as an answer in ' man in the street interview' in Tampa Bay? 
 
We should have SD70Dude conduct the interviews.
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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, September 6, 2020 6:29 AM

Only from within a hazmat suit.......

Hockey fans certainly know where Edmonton is these days, and Tampa actually turned out to be a pretty good hockey town when they won in 2004 (poor Calgary LaughLaughLaugh).

We have major roads named after both Gretzky and Messier.

I suspect my interviews with Americans would go something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRh1zXFKC_o

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZE0TuKTpo4

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:09 PM

How's the seal hunt this year in Alberta? I heard Ralph Klein is moving the Royal Alberta Navy's aircraft carrier the Briar up to Fort McMurray but the Golden Broom stays in Medicine Hat. Beauty railroad station there, and a Timmies close by.

We have FM now? When I push the FM button it doesn't move to the top. I see it along the bottom of the dial but it's always only AM that's comes on. 

I have been to the National Igloo Monument but that road is not paved yet and it's pretty bad in the spring.

The Islanders? Are they in PEI or Newfoundland?

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:28 PM

Gotta watch those evil Saskatchewan polar bears, preying on the seals!  Is it true they have adapted to the long-term global warming trend by growing brown coats?

And the evil tradition of geriatric exposure, Canada's counterpart to barbaric Chinese infant exposure, must cease!

On the other hand, it was good to see the Columbia campus again, including the administration building.  As we say 'used to be a library ... now it's just Low'

Of course for pure delight you can't match the videos of MIT graduates asked technical questions outside their sometimes highly-specialized fields of study... Devil

I was unaware that Alberta had aircraft carriers in its Navy, the whole province essentially constituting a sort of vast grass airfield for those CF-105s with tundra tires.  I'm still impressed with HMCS Tecumseh, Canada's answer to the United States research into concrete ships (does Edmonton still dock the Nonsuch?)

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:55 PM

SD70Dude
I suspect my interviews with Americans would go something like this:

I'd also suspect that since these are comedy shows we're only seeing the ignorant or the gullible.

If not, God help us all!

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, September 6, 2020 3:16 PM

Well, what about when they're being serious in more important contexts?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkc4OfQt_P4

Just a further example of why I proudly fly the Palmetto flag inverted on each anniversary of the firing on Fort Sumter.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, September 6, 2020 3:47 PM

In all fairness, listening to her speak it sure doesn't sound like a South Cakalaky accent to me!  Are you sure she didn't escape from "The Valley" and find her way cross-country somehow?

Fer shur!

Let's go back to 1982!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb21lsCQ3EM  

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, September 6, 2020 7:38 PM

Then there's this old story:

A cop on the beat saw a wino laying in the gutter.  When he walked up to him the man was muttering "It can't be done!  I've tried!  It can't be done!"

"Whatsa matter pal?  What can't be done?"

The wino pointed to a billboard on a building across the street.  The cop looked and saw...

"DRINK CANADA DRY!"  

I'll go quietly...

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, September 6, 2020 10:43 PM

Miningman
I'm going to venture a guess no one in Tampa Bay even knows where Edmonton is and not that many in New York ( Gretzky and Mark Messier fans only) 

You might be suprised how many Canadians find their way to Florida in the winter.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, September 6, 2020 11:08 PM

Plenty of snowbirds that's for sure. Wonder how that works out with Covid... pretty sure you cannot drive down, maybe flights? I would not travel for some time yet, especially all those old geezer snowbirds. 

How many Americans could point on a map where Edmonton is located..very few I would surmise.  Of course that's not important for any reason really, so just geography buffs, people who have business dealings in Edmonton, oil and gas guys and hockey fans would be successful. 

Why is the Eastern Final being played in the West and the Western Final being played in the East? That is the question! 

 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, September 7, 2020 1:53 AM
Edmonton on this map would be practically a home game for the Islanders.
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Posted by Overmod on Monday, September 7, 2020 7:44 AM

There is something scarily wrong with that link on an iPhone.  It tries to open in three separate sections and cannot be copied and pasted to view.

I have to admit that's a pretty good observation.  It certainly does look as though EDMONTON is right off Montauk (of course that is at about the other end of the Island from Nassau Coliseum but on the scale of the map that is but a mere bagatelle...)

http://courses.ecuad.ca/file.php/1790/lecture_images//1387932954133ecadd4688.jpg

Instead of a 'subway series' we could have a Cannon Ball series.  (Or a Hampton Jitney series ... but surely there would be trainloads of fans.)  What would we use to get them from Montauk out to where, somewhat Atlantis-like, the Oilers would play?  Presumably that is something like an enlarged Canadian adaptation of HMS Habbakuk decked over in sheet ice with a flotilla of Zambonis.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, September 7, 2020 10:29 AM

Overmod-- I get that as well on my iPad ... the links befote posting come through the size of my dining room table.. There are two links that go along with those first two images previously from Mike  that are not posted. I cannot see the submit button.  I had a heck of a time with it. I still do not dare to even try. Google seems to adapt the image to fit the screen but copy and paste is another thing. Might be an Apple thing or the original source. 

If this is a reoccurring condition I'm in trouble. Might be yet another way to force me to get a new iPad that accepts current updates. 

Been thinking about doing that as there are other problems as well. what can you do ? Once in a while you need to buy a new car, a new TV,  even a new job... seven year cycle thing.. 

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, September 7, 2020 1:41 PM

Miss Teen USA South Carolina contestant made perfect sense to my dog Scamp. Unfortunately Scamp is not able to explain it to me due to the fact she cannot talk. Maybe someone here can translate.

I made mention of the "beauty station" in Medicine Hat. Not kidding.

 

SD40-2 Eastbound 5634 passing an impressive station and office building. Division HQ.

 

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, September 8, 2020 4:08 PM

Wow, what did I start!?

Overmod

Gotta watch those evil Saskatchewan polar bears, preying on the seals!  Is it true they have adapted to the long-term global warming trend by growing brown coats?

It's more of a dark forest green, which makes them blend in all the better in their new Boreal habitat.  I suspect they have established a symbiotic relationship with some sort of algae, mold or lichen to achieve this colouration so rapidly. 

Overmod

And the evil tradition of geriatric exposure, Canada's counterpart to barbaric Chinese infant exposure, must cease!

But what will the polar bears eat?

Overmod

I was unaware that Alberta had aircraft carriers in its Navy, the whole province essentially constituting a sort of vast grass airfield for those CF-105s with tundra tires.  I'm still impressed with HMCS Tecumseh, Canada's answer to the United States research into concrete ships (does Edmonton still dock the Nonsuch?)

Oh you're good.  She's still docked along Kingsway, across the street from the former RCAF Edmonton site and the aviation museum, which has a Bomarc displayed on their front lawn, among other things. 

Those Arrows can also be fitted with skis, for operations in winter and while based on our Habakkuk-class carriers. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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