MN&S passenger service

[NP Eddie]

The MN&S had passenger service until some point in WWII. I assume these were motor car trains. Did the MN&S have dining/lounge service?

Ed Burns

[rcdrye]

I think the answer is "no, because the runs didn't go far enough (87 miles)".  Predecessor Dan Patch Lines was essentially an interurban.

[daveklepper]

Didn't Dan Patch use McKeen "windsplitters?"

[rcdrye]

daveklepper

Didn't Dan Patch use McKeen "windsplitters?"

 

The GE gas-electrics used had a rounded nose, not the sharp McKeen nose, but you have to look at photos carefully to see the non-McKeen trucks underneath.  DPL's freight locos also had the distinctive rounded ends.

[Overmod]

rcdrye

daveklepper

Didn't Dan Patch use McKeen "windsplitters?"

The GE gas-electrics used had a rounded nose, not the sharp McKeen nose, but you have to look at photos carefully to see the non-McKeen trucks underneath.  DPL's freight locos also had the distinctive rounded ends.

To me the GE motor-electrics have always been radically different from McKeens, probably because my introduction to the GE cars was the Trains article in 1974 which had many pictures and technical detail.

rcdrye will know or can find the correct reference for this, but there were aerodynamic tests near the turn of the century for the 'correct' aerodynamics of fast interurban cars that (as I recall) indicated the streamlining was best with the parabolic end on the front and the knife-point 'windsplitting' on the rear -- this being consistent with the 'goutte d'eau' idea (although there is little actual parallel between raindrops and that shape!)

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Overmod is right with the streamlining observation.  McKeens were also different from the GE cars because of their straight mechanical drive.

[Overmod]

CSSHEGEWISCH

McKeens were also different from the GE cars because of their straight mechanical drive.

It is interesting to actually consider the drive in a McKeen, not only for some of its details and assumptions, but because the McKeen company did not address the problems in time to save the company.

The drivetrain used a reasonably capable motor for the day, putting it reasonably crosswise to simplify the drive, with the reasonable choice of larger drive wheel diameter to simplify what was often recognized as a problem for railroad operations, a mechanical multiple-speed transmission.  An important but often unrecognized advantage was the use of then-new Morse silent chain in the final drive, which got rid of many of the issues with sealed-gear drives and suspension. In my opinion had McKeen known the principle of the Weller tensioner this would have been genius; in its absence both suspension travel and the ability to completely isolate the motor on its own suspension (ideally with at least rubber bushing isolation) had to be compromised.  That meant both that road shocks were communicated really well to the motor-truck frame and that the engine mounted in that frame would be subject to every shock and jar communicated from the track against all the running gear's considerable inertial mass.

Meanwhile the early GEs were things of beauty and sense mechanically, powered by a lovely V8 engine of remarkably good design and able to use the development work facilitating better interurban car equipment more or less directly.  It is interesting further to compare the GE effort to what EMC would do in the next decade... and why there was so little use of gas cars for interurbans vs. the dichotomy of electric cars and bustitution that marked the whole 'end times' for interurbans in America (vs. the fad for gas cars in cheap service on Class 1s that turned into the RDC revolution, and then fizzling out, postwar).

[Jones1945]

Source: https://www.swnewsmedia.com/savage_pacer/a-new-ride/article_bf76ac9f-cf7c-5349-a748-ad62f949fae8.html

That unique headlight caught my eye...

[Overmod]

Jones1945

That unique headlight caught my eye...

There were prewar E units with the same arrangement in sealed beams -- probably for the same reason of being impossible to ignore approaching crossings.

[rcdrye]

GE sold a fair number of gas-electric cars but didn't make much money on them, so they kind of lost interest.  It took EMC's re-use of the GE electrical system (bolted onto a Winton engine - GE declined to produce the gas engines for EMC) to make the gas-electric a really practical product.  Of course EMC's boxy carbody wasn't as sleek as GE's, but it still had clean lines.

The best overall discussion of streamlining may be in White's "American Railway Passenger Car" which goes over the early testing of some very modern looking wooden cars.  Kuhlman offered a parabolic "Windsplitter" that looks like a cross between a McKeen and GE front end.  The arched windows kept them from looking modern, and most spent their lives at moderate speed on iffy track.

[Jones1945]

Overmod

There were prewar E units with the same arrangement in sealed beams -- probably for the same reason of being impossible to ignore approaching crossings.

Interesting! I found out at least two RRs used "7 bulb headlight" on their diesel engines: