New York Central Scenes from the CASO

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New York Central Scenes from the CASO
Posted by Miningman on Friday, July 20, 2018 2:21 PM

New Haven in Canada? What the heck!!

Short lived Amtrak Niagara Rainbow

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, July 20, 2018 2:34 PM

Glory days..

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, July 20, 2018 5:54 PM

That New Haven train looks like the "Talgo" type the NH messed around with for a while, maybe it was there on a demonstration run?

And those next two photos?  Ah, the NYC the way it's supposed to look!

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, July 20, 2018 6:34 PM

Yes the Daniel Webster was on a demonstration tour. The Central ordered their train 'X' and named it the Xplorer. All those Train X Talgo trains were monumental flops and failures, but hey at least they were trying. 

It's just odd that a New Haven lettered train traversed the Canada Southern. New York Central routed it between Detroit and Buffalo that way. Must have turned some heads along the route.

I was inspired by todays Photo of the Day showing NYC FM C Liner ( a five axle!) and an Erie built being assisted by a Hudson #5273 in Sept.'55. Wonder if this was her last hurrah? Classic has featured Centrals Hudsons late in the game several times around 55 and even into 56. 

St Thomas was a hotbed for Hudsons and although the last official scheduled run was in 1953 for them along the CASO I have a photo of one running into St. Thomas in 1955, and steam was very scarce on the Central by then. They kept their 2 ancient 4-6-0 teapots there (1290 and 1291) for the St Clair branch, running them into spring 1957.

I might add that it was an absolute disgrace that Central did not donate or preserve a Hudson. They were still running them when Pennsy's T1's were relegated to junk and out of service for some time, although at least one was still at Altoona in '55 and should have been saved, especially since the S1 and Q's were scrapped. 

Late addition-- Note that the flat car on the upper right parallel to the Hudson is lettered 'Canada Southern'... very few cars were lettered this way.  

 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, July 21, 2018 12:09 AM

Anybody know anything about this? Firelock, any ideas? 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, July 21, 2018 12:23 AM

Is that engine a hand-bomber? Mischief

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, July 21, 2018 11:57 AM

Could be, it's an old NYC "Pacific" type, and I don't see the RCAF in evidence anywhere.

Well, I'll just have to fix that, won't I?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4qB2hSgIDY

And I have to make sure this fine gentleman and great aviator makes an appearance...

http://taylorempireairways.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/PDVD_027.JPG

Yep, the great Air Marshal Billy Bishop, top surviving Empire ace from the First World War with 72 kills.  I'm surprised he didn't get overseas during World War Two, but then I'm sure there were those in the RAF who remembered what a wild man he was in the First War and didn't want to let him anywhere near a Spitfire cockpit!  After all, a leopard doesn't change its spots!

 

 

Thank you Warner Brothers!  You didn't know it, but you produced one hell of a time capsule!

And that "Photo O' The Day"  captioned  "Diesel assists steam..."?   Unless that Hudson's on its last legs, which could be a possibility in 1955, it's more likely the Hudson's assisting the diesels.  Railroads found out pretty quick in those days that in a lash-up of a coal-fired steam engine with a diesel you had to put the steam engine behind the diesel, otherwise cinders from the steam engine would be sucked into the diesel's air intakes.

Not good for the diesel, although I'm sure it was gratifying for the steamer!

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, July 21, 2018 1:26 PM

Firelock-- Yes that's definitely a Pacific. Are those 'air bursts' we see above and following the locomotive? Does anyone know about these practice bombings on moving trains and locomotives? 

I know the Allies hit German trains quite frequently and a direct hit on a steam locomotive would blow it up to kingdom come.

I think these were practice bombing runs on moving trains as shown by the photo. Likely a less used branch line of the CASO, St.Clair, Welland, or more likely the Lemington Branch. The mainline CASO was far too busy busy busy but you never know. 

It's certain this was done in other locations throughout North America.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, July 21, 2018 2:44 PM

I don't know, looking at the photo I can see a farm in the background and those "puffs", for lack of a better term, one-two-three from left to right look more like trees, but it's so indistinct it's hard to tell.

I don't know how the RCAF did it, but during bombing practice during war games against moving targets like tanks in that era the US Army Air Force used sacks of flour instead of bombs, dummy or otherwise.  It was a lot safer and there was still a good "poof" when the flour bomb hit the target or close to it.  Dummy bombs were used against stationary targets like pre-fab buildings or big target circles on the ground.

Air bursts with bombs would have required a proximity fuse which I don't believe were in use in bombs at that time.  Proximity fuses were used in anti-aircraft artillery first, then conventional artillery later, I don't think they ever made it into bombs during World War Two.

The only proximity fused bombs I can think of, and that's IF they were fused that way, might have been the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan, both were set to explode at an altitude 1500 feet for maximum effect. 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, July 21, 2018 3:02 PM

Thanks Firelock. It is hard to ascertain what those 'puffs' are... perhaps they are trees. However the original caption does state " World War 2 bomber training" , which directs you to a peculiar state of mind. 

Sacks of flour eh? That will work! I recall reading an account of a German Pilot who bombed or strafed a British steam locomotive. He blew it up but was too close and the boiler explosion took down his aircraft. I believe both the pilot and engineer died. 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, July 21, 2018 3:17 PM

I read about that German pilot as well!  He was flying an FW-190 on a strafing mission over England, and got what we used to call a bad case of "target fixation," that is, he was so intent on hitting his target he lost situational awareness of of where he was and just what the target was, so when the locomotive blew up it took him down too.  Military pilots today are warned to watch out for it, "T-F" killed pilots then, it still kills them now.

I hadn't heard about the engineer being killed, unlike a "low water on the crown sheet" explosion the blast from this one went straight up.  I hope the head-end crew survived.  The German?  He learned the hard way don't mess with "Thomas and Friends!"

HEY!  Guess what?  I found the story!  Here it is...

https://ryesown.co.uk/german-bomber/

And it's been said Winston's famous "V for Victory" gesture also meant "Take one with you!"  That tank engine sure took it to heart!

One of my uncles who was an Army Air Force veteran told me those types of German strafing attacks took place as late as 1944.  His own airfield was hit several times, but the attacks were more of an annoyance than anything else.  One fast pass with guns blazing, and the Germans were gone, they didn't stick around for another.  At any rate the days of the full-blown "Blitz" were over, the Luftwaffe had very few aircraft in Western Europe by that time, the rest were in Russia or assigned to defense of the Reich.

 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, July 21, 2018 3:59 PM

Thanks again Firelock, so the Fireman and Engineer were not killed. Heck of a thing.  

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, July 30, 2018 8:47 PM

How about a few more scenes from a line that no longer exists.

 

 

 

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