Ex-New York Central Stainless Steel Equipment

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Ex-New York Central Stainless Steel Equipment
Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 9:43 AM

Used stainless steel equipment 

Four 5 Double Bedroom Lounge Brook series cars were acquired in January 1959 from the New York Central. 

Two cars each worked Pool Trains 21 and 22 between Montreal and Toronto and Pool Trains 33 and 34 between Ottawa and Toronto. Initially, the Montreal cars operated through to Hamilton with two other sleepers on No. 321, returning on No. 328. Built by Budd in 1949, which company later built The Canadian equipment. All were sold in 1969, this car and another went to the Quebec Cartier Mining Company and one Singing Brook to the Algoma Central as their Canyon View

Note: Singing Brook was a spare car for the 20th Century Limited's Hickory Creek and Sandy Creek
The large observation windows were unique to these three cars. Babbling Brook (Seaview below) had standard size. 

Seaview, is ex NYC Babbling Brook. 
John Street Coach Yard in Toronto, October 1965 David Hale 

View car (ex NYC) with consist for Number 33 Pool train to Toronto via Havelock.
RDC for No. 134 to Montreal via Lachute. 
Ottawa Union coach yard. 1965 Bruce Chapman Collection

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 10:49 AM

Thanks.   Also were spares for the New Engnland States' obs cars.   And used for second sections of the Century when required.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 8:02 PM

I'm thinking this sort of represents the opposite of the pinnacle of post war passenger trains. In 10 short years the slide begins, these cars, rolled out for the 20th Century Limited in 1949, end up, 2nd hand, on the Canadian Pacific/ Canadian National pool train service between Toronto-Ottawa- Montreal on non descript #d trains, but still important ones.

10 years after that off they go to short line operators. 

Blink and you missed the whole show.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 31, 2018 6:56 AM

The three high window 5DBR obs Wingate Brook, Sunrise Brook and Singing Brook were built for the Southwestern Limited in 1949.  They only stayed there until about 1953.  After that they were protect for the Century, New England States and Ohio State Limited.  Four standard-window Brook cars were normally assigned to the New England States and Ohio State Limited, at least initially.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, January 31, 2018 9:46 AM

Thank you rcdrye for completing the historical picture on these observation cars. So backup/protection for the Century,which I knew but not built for the Century when new, which I stated in error. 

Wonder at what point, meaning at the very high levels, NYC knew their passenger service was a lost cause and the tremendous investment in new equipment was seen as a poor decision. Perhaps by '53?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, January 31, 2018 12:09 PM

Miningman
Wonder at what point, meaning at the very high levels, NYC knew their passenger service was a lost cause and the tremendous investment in new equipment was seen as a poor decision. Perhaps by '53?

Likely earlier than that.  The whole rationale for comparing Niagaras to diesels involved frequent use on very fast passenger trains.  The experiments into poppet valves so touted in Kiefer's 1947 report ... were never made, the 5500 was scrapped early; the Niagaras and all gone within about a half decade after that.  This is completely associated with the decline of Great Steel Fleet service, and while the best 'Dieseliner' conversions were being touted through the late '40s I suspect the operational assessment of large investments in brand-new 'other Trains' was highly negative before '53.  Perhaps Mike can do a little 'deconstruction' on contemporary advertising and Water Level Route schedules to see.

Note that there were things like the speed increases as late as the '60s, and the splendid knifing of the Liberty Limited via the B&O bypass operation on NYC's P&LE in 1957, so it's not just head-in-the-sand refusal to comprehend first the falling off as a Default' means of travel and then the idea that all passenger trains ultimately require subsidy to stay alive.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 31, 2018 2:49 PM

NYC made a huge investment in new equipment between 1948 and 1950, including secondary market buys from the likes of C&O.  A look at an Official Guide from the era shows amazing capacity for overnight travel, with lots of intricate moves to make life easy for the business traveller.  On the other hand, the Constellation was quickly followed by the 707.  After pulling out of Pullman lease in 1958 (and selling large numbers of not-entirely-depreciated cars to CN and NdeM) NYC still had to pull out of markets that had effectively disappeared.  The few moderately successful areas made the problem of getting rid of plug runs even harder.

NYC's service to St. Louis competed with PRR and B&O, missed key cities like Cincinnati and Columbus (but did hit Cleveland) and was heavily involved in Texas/Oklahoma traffic.  The Southwestern Limited was supposed to be a near-equivalent to the 20th Century (or at least better than the Commodore Vanderbilt) but ridership fell quickly between 1948 and 1952, along with postal and head-end revenue.  NYC was out of the St. Louis market before either PRR or B&O, whose trains survived until 1971.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, April 01, 2018 2:30 PM

Looking more like a model railroad scene than the real thing. Here is Babbling Brook, still going.

Webb Rail Babbling Brook brings up the rear of Amtrak 69 entering Montreal on CN Rouses Point Sub. . 6/20/2014 

Sold 1986 by Cartier into private car ownership and changed hands a number of times over the years. 
Currently owned and operated for private charters by Webb Rail.

Note as well crossing gates only on one side of road as it is a one way street!

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, April 01, 2018 3:49 PM

And with Amtrak saying "no" to private charters now who knows if, and or when, a shot like that might be repeated? 

Maybe the one car on the rear of the train move might still be OK with them, but who knows for certain?

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, April 01, 2018 8:37 PM

Yes I was thinking about that when I posted the picture. If taken at it's literal meaning it would really leave a lot of organizations and equipment idle. Should some kind of compromise arise you can be assured that the cost will go way way up and a zillion restrictions. 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, April 01, 2018 9:46 PM

Costs? Almost certainly to go up.  Restrictions?  There I'm not so sure.  In order to be part of an Amtrak consist now the privately owned cars have to be rebuilt to Amtrak standards to begin with, i.e. braking systems, wheels and trucks, HEP, and all that.  What other restrictions they could add leaves me a bit puzzled.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, April 01, 2018 10:18 PM

Who knows...bureaucrats have their ways. eg. You must fill out form 11a-76-2d in triplicate 60 days prior to and after you have submitted form 652-700-r and been approved. 

Something like that.

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