Trains On Other Railroads

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Trains On Other Railroads
Posted by SPer on Thursday, November 02, 2017 9:46 AM

I seen maps of Great Northern and Northern Pacific systems and they have the line to Chicago and their freight and passenger trains ran on the CB&Q line to Chicago and the SP&S line to Portland in a same fashion that B&O trains ran on the Reading and CNJ to New York.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 02, 2017 10:38 AM

From St. Paul to Chicago the freight and passenger trains were Burlington trains, not GN or NP. The passenger cars were individually owned by all three roads plus by the SP&S, but Burlington provided the operating crews over the Burlington. 

Johnny

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, November 02, 2017 12:16 PM

The Great Northern and Northern Pacific ran from St.Paul MN on the Mississippi River west to Seattle WA. Early passengers going to Chicago from Seattle on the NP or GN had to change trains and take a different railroad (like C&NW) to get from St.Paul to Chicago. About 1910 the NP and GN jointly bought a controlling interest in the Burlington Route, which had an excellent St.Paul - Chicago mainline. (I believe each railroad bought about 45%, so together owned about 90%.)

After that, NP or GN trains from the west going to Chicago would back into St.Paul Union Depot on the wye and their GN or NP power would be replaced with Burlington power, that would take the train to Chicago. Trains like the Empire Builder or North Coast Limited would be listed in the Burlington timetables as Burlington Route trains, with CB&Q train numbers (which sometimes was the same as their GN or NP numbers).

A somewhat similar situation existed for the SP&S. Amtrak Empire Builder trains today heading west still split, with some cars going to Seattle and some to Portland. Normally, the Portland cars are the cars behind the observation / lounge car.

Generally, freight would be interchanged in the Twin Cities from the NP or GN to the CB&Q, who would make up their own trains (with Burlington engines / cabooses) to go to Chicago. In the later diesel era there may have been some run-through agreements where GN or NP power went all the way to Chicago, but (as noted above) with Burlington crews.

New York Central and CB&Q had a run-through agreement, and seeing NYC engines in St.Paul wasn't that unusual. That agreement continued through PC/Conrail and BN, and NS - BNSF.

Stix
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Posted by SPer on Thursday, November 02, 2017 1:27 PM

 GN freight trains and steam locomotives runs on the SP&S via Spokane,WA to get to Bend OR and Bieber,CA

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 05, 2017 9:13 AM

But the B&O passenger trains into Jersey City ran through with B&O engine and train crews and B&O power.  The freight was interchanged; trains ran through, but power and crews were changed, at least in Philadelophia if not in Bound Brook. Lehigh Valley trains into Penn Station usinig PRR elelctric power had PRR engine crews with train crews running through.  On the Hudson and Manhattan joint Hudson Terminal, NY - Newark Service, half the cars were PRR-owned and half H&M.  Ditto half the crews, which ran through.  The cars were used indiscrimantly; most trains had a mixture.  Eastern Mass streetcars running into Boston swapped crews with Boston Elevated crews; in one case fareboxes were swapped.  But Lahigh Valley Transit cars running into 69th Street over the Philadelphia and Western ran through with an LVT operator, but would not handle local passengers Norristown - Ardmore Jc. - 69th Street.

The North Shore at times changed crews at Howard Street and at times ran ran through to Chicagol. Complicated history.  Different union representation was a problem at one time.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, November 05, 2017 10:26 AM

What Dave says is true, but every once in a great while railfans in the Jersey City area would get a treat when a Reading T1 would show up on a through freight, and in the diesel era it wasn't unusual for B&O diesels to show up in JC.  I've seen some railfan footage of the same, but that may also have been the Jersey Central borrowing power.  

Typically there's no hard and fast rule here, but that's the fun of being a railfan.  Some days you never know what you'll see, that's part of the fun!

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, November 05, 2017 11:47 AM

daveklepper

But the B&O passenger trains into Jersey City ran through with B&O engine and train crews and B&O power.  The freight was interchanged; trains ran through, but power and crews were changed, at least in Philadelophia if not in Bound Brook. 

...

Crews on the B&O trains between Washington and Jersey City were joint crews.  Each carrier's crew participation was related to the mileage they operated in the total route of the run.  Since percentages of mileage and percentage of crew member starts rarely work out even, periodically jobs would be advertised to adjust the mileages of the positions.  The was (and still is) a common practice where more than one carrier participates in defined work situations.

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, November 06, 2017 9:41 AM

I rode the B&O NY -Washington during WWII, and the joint train crew arrangement may have been later.  And I really had experience only with train crews, so what you say about joint crewing may have been applicable to engine crews even at that time.

Yes, I did use the B&O bus Columbus Circle - Jersey City, so riding the B&O NY - Washington is correct.

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