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Pronunciation versus Spelling

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Pronunciation versus Spelling
Posted by Deggesty on Friday, January 30, 2015 10:30 AM

This is a new thread, created to avoid the off-topic police.

Quoting the Sage of Upstate New York: "Reminds me of the "g" in Samoan - which is pronounced as "ng," but not as hard as in English.  The prime example is the capital of American Samoa, Pago Pago, which the uninitiated usually say as "Paygo Paygo" or pronouncing the first syllables as in hunger pangs.  In reality, it's "Pahn go Pahn go, with the g kinda held on the back of your tongue.  Hard to describe..."

I have been told that when a printing press, supposedly complete with all the necessary fonts was shipped to Samoa, somehow all of the letters "g" were lost enroute--therefore it was impossible to spell the name of the chief city correctly.

Of course, we can think of many place names in our country which are spelled in ways that confuse the uninitiated--Worcester ("Wooster"), for instance. Until my wife corrected me (she lived and worked in New York City for eleven years), I accented the ultimate syllable of New Rochelle until she told me that the penultimate syllable is accented.

Wow! at times I need a grammar check, for if I am composing quickly my fingers may omit a necessary word. But--I would not trust anyone who went through high school in the last forty years, for it seems that much that I learned is no longer taught. Whoever compiled the grammar check in Word Perfect does not understand the English language.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, January 30, 2015 10:32 AM

For the benefit of all who caught two spelling errors in the above when receiving it via email, I failed to proofread it, but did correct them before leaving it on the forum.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, January 30, 2015 5:06 PM

OK Johnny, you've got me.  Just how DO you pronounce it?

New RO-chelle, or New Ro-CHELLE?

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, January 30, 2015 5:21 PM

From what my wife told me, it is RAH-shll. (I do not know how to put the schwa in after the "sh" or the "sch".) For the benefit of the unlearned, a schwa is a very short vowel that is usually represented by an upside-down lower case "e."

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, January 31, 2015 9:36 AM

New RAH-shll?  Man, that's a new one on me!  Never heard it pronounced that way before.

I think I'll invoke my God-given right as a New Jersey native to pronounce things anyway I please!

New Rah-shll.  They never pronounced it that way on the old "Dick vanDyke Show"!

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, January 31, 2015 1:46 PM

1974 Merriam Webster's New Collegiate dictionary has the ‘r’ at the end of the first syllable, which is slightly emphasized and has a parenthetic (y) before a ‘u’ with a dot on top representing similar to ‘oo’ in foot. The second syllable is an upside-down ‘e’ representing similar to ‘u’ in abut. The third syllable (shel) is emphasized.

So something like Nur-uh-SHELL?  Probably need a Huguenot.

 

 

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, January 31, 2015 4:31 PM

Quite a few French Hugenots emigrated to the part of New Jersey where I'm from, Bergen County to be exact.  Some came during Dutch rule, others during English, but most during the 17th Century as the New Rochelle settlers did.  The present-day town of Demarest is named for one of the prominent Hugenot families, the De Marests.

As an aside, Bergen County residents pronounce the towns name as "Demma-rest."

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Posted by AltonFan on Monday, February 2, 2015 12:51 PM

Cairo, the capital of Egypt, is pronounced "kai-roh."

Cairo, a town in southern Illinois, is pronounced "kay-row."

Dan

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, February 2, 2015 5:09 PM

Then there's Lima, Peru, pronounced "Lee-ma", and Lima, Ohio, pronounced "Ly-ma."

Bogota Columbia (Boga-ta) versus Bogota New Jersey (Buh-go-duh.)

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Posted by John Liebson on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 5:07 PM

Amherst, Massachusetts, is pronounced "Amerst," as is Amherst College. Amherst, NY is pronounced with the `h'. There are other Amersts scattered about the US and Canada, some of which may well be pronounced differently, yet, such as Amherst, VA and TX.

Many, many other towns have their own local pronunciations, such as Versailles, MO, 'Versales."

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 7:16 PM

I'm sure General Lord Jeffrey Amherst, for whom all those places were named, would have pronounced it AM-herst. 

The Brits tend to put the emphasis on the first syllable of a multi-syllable name.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, February 5, 2015 9:57 AM

My old neighborhood gets butchered routinely, correct pronunciation is HEGG-wish, not HEDGE-wish.

Thanks to Lands' End, the stop on the Illinois Central is mispronounced.  Correct pronunciation is MAT-uh-son, not MATT-sen. 

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, February 5, 2015 11:21 AM

I was born in the state that's Hi in the middle and round on both ends.  Back there, the B&O served the town of Belpre (pronounced Bell-Pree), and a branch of the PRR served Cadiz (Caddis, with the accent on the first syllable).  A major point on the NYC's Big Four was Bellefontaine (just say Bell Fountain).  If you come from the Cleveland-Akron area, you pronounce Cuyahoga Ki uh hoge uh (long O, hard G).  But you might slip and call it Ki-uh-hogga (short O).  If you're in a hurry it's Ki-hogga, and if you're in a BIG hurry it's Cogga.  So don't be confused if somebody says he's from Cogga Falls.Big Smile 

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, February 6, 2015 12:14 PM

ACY

If you come from the Cleveland-Akron area, you pronounce Cuyahoga Ki uh hoge uh (long O, hard G).  But you might slip and call it Ki-uh-hogga (short O).  If you're in a hurry it's Ki-hogga, and if you're in a BIG hurry it's Cogga.  So don't be confused if somebody says he's from Cogga Falls.Big Smile 

Tom 

 

And if it is locals talking - it's just 'the Falls'.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, February 7, 2015 5:22 PM

Then there's Wanaque, New Jersey, as in the old Erie Wanaque-Midvale branch.

I'm told there's two ways to pronounce Wanaque, "Wanna-kee", and "Wanna-kew", but honestly all I've ever heard is "Wanna-kew."

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Posted by garyla on Saturday, February 7, 2015 7:37 PM

In California's Antelope Valley, the UP (former SP) runs through the city of Lancaster (LAN-cas-ter). 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Pennsylvania's Strasburg RR operates in Lancaster (LANK-as-ter) County.

No?

If I ever met a train I didn't like, I can't remember when it happened!
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Posted by ACY Tom on Saturday, February 7, 2015 9:04 PM

Garyla:

You're very close.  The only nit-picking correction I would make is to attach the S to the last syllable:  LANK-uh-stir.  This considerably de-emphasizes the middle syllable.  In contrast, we are familiar with Burt LAN-CASS-ter.  Pronounce it that way in Amish country & you'll get a wry smile from the locals.  By the way, Reading is pronounced pretty much the same way they pronounce it across the pond (think past tense of "read").

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, February 7, 2015 9:07 PM

I am not sure about the Pennsylvania town, but it is LANK-as-ter county in South Carolina and the seat of the county is LANK-as-ter--I grew up ten miles south of the county seat. And, my father, along with many of his ancestors, was born in LANK-as-ter county in Virginia; I believe the name of the county seat is pronounced the same way.

Then, when I lived in Pickens county, Alabama, I met some people whose ancestors came from Lancaster county, S.C., who pronounced their family name Lan-CAST-er. (I also found some distant cousins whose ancestors had come from Lancaster county, S.C.)

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, February 7, 2015 9:10 PM

And, considering that Quebec is the French spelling of an Indian (or First Nation, as they say  now) name, I do not doubt that if the area had been settled by English instead of French, the name would be Kebec.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, February 7, 2015 9:14 PM

ACY

Garyla:

You're very close.  The only nit-picking correction I would make is to attach the S to the last syllable:  LANK-uh-stir.  This considerably de-emphasizes the middle syllable.  In contrast, we are familiar with Burt LAN-CASS-ter.  Pronounce it that way in Amish country & you'll get a wry smile from the locals.  By the way, Reading is pronounced pretty much the same way they pronounce it across the pond (think past tense of "read").

Tom 

 

Ah yes, as to Reading, I was corrected early on by my mother as to how to pronouce the name (and she was born in Kochi, Japan--of missionary parents, one of whom was from Lancaster county, South Carolina and the other from Brunswick country, Virginia).

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Posted by wjstix on Sunday, February 8, 2015 3:52 AM

There are some here in the Midwest that get mispronounced a lot - 

Montevideo, MN...it's not pronounced like the South American city (Mon-tah-vi-DAY-oh) but "Mon-tah-VID-ee-oh" (so the last part is "video" like TV).

Pierre, SD...it's not like a French guy's name (Pee-yair). It's pronounced "Peer", like a 'pier' where a ship would land.

Winona, MN...isn't "Why-know-nah" (like Wynonna Judd) but "Whi-know-nah". 

Sault Ste. Marie, MI (and ONT)...thanks to the Soo Line, I think most railfans know "Sault" rhymes with "Zoo" so it's "Soo Saint Ma-ree"

Nicollet, WI is "Nick-o-lay" but Nicollet in MN is "Nickle-it". 

Des can cause trouble...Des Plaines, IL is normally "Dez Plaines" but Des Moines IA is "Duh-Moin". BTW Dubuque IA, is "Duh-byooke".

Faribault, MN is generally "Fair-a-bow" but people from there sometimes pronounce the "t" so it's more like "Fair-a-bolt".

BTW I think ones like these are different from local slang / blurred pronounciations that come up, like people in Milwaukee WI saying "Mwaukee" or New Orleans LA residents saying "Nahlins". 

FWIW if you like Spam, Austin MN where it's made is pronounced the same as the one in Texas, but Hormel, the company that makes Spam, is called "Hoar-MEL" pretty much everywhere but Austin MN...people there say "Hormull" (kinda rhymes with "normal").

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, February 8, 2015 11:26 AM

This is fun!  Reminds me of that great Stephen Vincent Benet' poem "I've Fallen In Love With American Names".

"...and bury my heart at Wounded Knee."

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Posted by ACY Tom on Sunday, February 8, 2015 2:21 PM

Ever hear a Baltimorean pronounce the name of his city?  Lots of variants from the people who call the place home.  There's BAL-TEE-more; BALL-a-mer; BALL-da-mer; BALL-mer; and probably others.  Please refrain from calling him a Baltimoron.  That's not appreciated. Embarrassed

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, February 9, 2015 1:36 PM

Just a follow-up: From my home I can pick up Brewers games. Milwaukee native Bob Uecker always says "Mill-wah-kee". People there talking to each other sometimes slur it to "Mwah-kee" but I think if you asked them how to say it, they would say "Mill-wah-kee".

BTW Monticello in Virginia (Thos. Jefferson's home) is "Mon-tah-chell-o" with the "cello" part pronounced like the musical instrument. But if you're in Monticello, MN you're in "Mon-tah-sell-o".

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Posted by DS4-4-1000 on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 6:59 AM

As a Philly transplant to the Middle coal fields there were two pronunciations that stood out to me.

Shenendoah was pronounced SHEN doe

Mahanoy was pronounced MACK a noy

 

And in Philadelphia never say you are going downtown.  That immediately lables you as an outsider.  You go "Center City".

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 9:34 AM

ACY

Ever hear a Baltimorean pronounce the name of his city?  Lots of variants from the people who call the place home.  There's BAL-TEE-more; BALL-a-mer; BALL-da-mer; BALL-mer; and probably others.  Please refrain from calling him a Baltimoron.  That's not appreciated. Embarrassed

Tom

 

[quote user="ACY"]

Ever hear a Baltimorean pronounce the name of his city?  Lots of variants from the people who call the place home.  There's BAL-TEE-more; BALL-a-mer; BALL-da-mer; BALL-mer; and probably others.  Please refrain from calling him a Baltimoron.  That's not appreciated. Embarrassed

Tom

 I usually heard BALLimore when exploring its streetcar system as a teenager.
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Posted by softail86mark on Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:05 PM

Des Moines, WA has an "ess" sound at the end.

Des Moines, IA does not.

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Tuesday, March 3, 2015 5:51 PM

Don't recall where I first encountered this, so if I'm treading on somebody's copyright, my apologies.

Scene, a mixed train, one coach at the rear, approaching a town spelled Euralia.

Conductor (front of coach) - "You're a liar!  You're a liar!"

Brakeman (rear of coach) - "You really are!  You really are!"

Whistling

Chuck

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, March 3, 2015 9:58 PM

tomikawaTT

Don't recall where I first encountered this, so if I'm treading on somebody's copyright, my apologies.

Scene, a mixed train, one coach at ther rear, approaching a town spelled Euralia.

Conductor (front of coach) - "You're a liar!  You're a liar!"

Brakeman (rear of coach) - "You really are!  You really are!"

Whistling

Chuck

 

Chuck, I well remember that one--and, as you, I do not remember where I first saw it. I glanced quickly through A Treasury of Railroad Folklore, but did not find it, though it may well be there. Perhaps Paul North or Jeff Hergert can help us.

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Posted by lonewoof on Friday, March 6, 2015 1:33 PM

I'm more in favor of LANK-uh-stir, for the town/county here in South Carolina. (BTW, that's the "PAL metto State"; we can always spot the outsiders who want it to be "PALM etto".

 

Remember: In South Carolina, North is southeast of Due West... HIOAg /Bill

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