Private Section Sleeper

[KCSfan]

While browsing through the SP pages of a 1937 OG to see if the Dallas - San Antonio Lark was still running at that time (it wasn't) I found reference to a "Private Section Sleeper". It is shown running between LA and San Francisco in the consist of the Sunset Limited and is listed as having "sections and private sections". I never before heard of such a car. Was it a one of a kind or did other roads operate this odd type of sleeper on other trains? Anybody know how a private section was configured - my guess is that it was a percursor to a roomette? Better yet does anyone have a photo (especially an interior shot) ot such a car?

Mark

[daveklepper]

Imagine three sections on each side of a corridor.  On each side the center section is no longer a section, but is divided into two toilet facilities.  One for the section of the left and one for that on the right.   Instead of six regular sections, you now have four private sections.   What I need is a detailed floor plan to learn how this worked, just how access from the section to the toilet facility was arranged.  I don't think any cars were  built new like this, all were an experimental conversion from regular section cars, and this experiment led to the development of the roomette.

[wanswheel]

Perhaps like the Crescent cars in Johnny's question in RR Quiz.  Just barely discernible floor plan at link.

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/nby_pullman&CISOPTR=596

Mike

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

Perhaps like the Crescent cars in Johnny's question in RR Quiz.  Just barely discernible floor plan at link.

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/nby_pullman&CISOPTR=596

Mike

Yes, Mike, what you show in the link is very much like what Kratville shows on p. 11 of his Passenger Car Catalog. I find it interesting that the four sections that flank the private washrooms are also enclosed sections, as Kratville shows Plan 2412-H (10 Sections-4 Private Sections) which has the four private sections, which are not enclosed, and he also shows Plan 2412-J (two cars were so rebuilt), which has four enclosed sections (2 at each end of the car), and no private washrooms (12 Sections, 4 Enclosed Sections). I rather imagine that the porters did not enjoy making the beds in the enclosed sections, even though there was an 8 inch space between the side of the berth and the aisle wall. The doors to these sections is described as a "pantagraph door."

From the floor plan, the occupants of the private sections had to use the aisle to reach their washrooms.

The four cars that were operated on the Crescent Limited were named for famous men of the South, as I noted on the question thread, and there were sixteen cars in the Dale___ series (Daleboro, etc.). I was wondering where these cars were used, since there is no note as to which road they had been rebuilt for.

Incidentally, in 1929, Pullman built four 14-section cars for service on the Crescent Limited--and they were named for four famous men of the South; when these cars were replaced by the cars with private sections, the same names were used. A 14-section car had larger lounge-washrooms than a 16-section car (or a car with 10 sections and 4 private sections) did.

[wanswheel]

Johnny, 3 "Dale" cars are mentioned in Baltimore & Ohio's Capitol Limited and National Limited by Joe Welsh

http://books.google.com/books?id=1jeGzte_h3MC&pg=PA51

Mike

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

Johnny, 3 "Dale" cars are mentioned in Baltimore & Ohio's Capitol Limited and National Limited by Joe Welsh

http://books.google.com/books?id=1jeGzte_h3MC&pg=PA51

Mike

Thanks, Mike. Now to attempt to track down where the other eleven Dale series cars were used regularly. These cars, since there were so few of them, probable were assigned to certain trains, and were not in the general pool. Perhaps I should look through my November, 1937, Guide,  (handle with care!)to see if there is any other mention of them. In its June 15, 1931, and September, 1936, timetables, the Southern simply lists "14 section" sleepers, and does not specify private sections. In the 1936 TT, the cars are shown in Washington-Atlanta service, which required only two cars.

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

Johnny, 3 "Dale" cars are mentioned in Baltimore & Ohio's Capitol Limited and National Limited by Joe Welsh

http://books.google.com/books?id=1jeGzte_h3MC&pg=PA51

Mike

Thanks, Mike. Now to attempt to track down where the other eleven Dale series cars were used regularly. These cars, since there were so few of them, probable were assigned to certain trains, and were not in the general pool. Perhaps I should look through my November, 1937, Guide,  (handle with care!)to see if there is any other mention of them. In its June 15, 1931, and September, 1936, timetables, the Southern simply lists "14 section" sleepers, and does not specify private sections. In the 1936 TT, the cars are shown in Washington-Atlanta service, which required only two cars.