D&RGW main line varnish

[De Luxe]

Hello,

I have some questions about D&RGW passenger trains. I know that the D&RGW empire stretched mainly from Trinidad to Denver, from Pueblo to Ogden and also from Denver to Ogden, where it joined the Pueblo-Ogden main at Dotsero, Colorado. In a book about train desasters I read long time ago, that there was an accident with a D&RGW train called "New Mexico, Utah & California Express". There was also another accident with the "Scenic Limited Express". Well, I still don´t know anything more about these trains, I even don´t know between which cities they ran. I know that D&RGW had the heavyweight "Exposition Flyer" and streamlined "California Zephyr", that both were joint operation trains with the CB&Q and WP on the Chicago-Omaha-Denver-Salt Lake City-Oakland run. I also know that the "Prospector" and "Royal Gorge" were D&RGW-only trains that ran on the Denver(-Pueblo)-Salt Lake City main line. But what about the "Scenic Limited Express" and the "New Mexico, Utah & California Express"?? Can somebody tell me when these trains have been inaugurated and discontinued? And between which cities they ran? As for the "New Mexico, Utah & California Express", I could think of a possible (sounds logical to me) El Paso-Pueblo-Salt Lake City-Oakland run, so could this be another joint operation with WP west of Salt Lake City and maybe AT&SF south of Trinidad to El Paso? And what also interests me is, if these 2 trains I mentioned (as well as the" Exposition Flyer") have ever been upgraded from heavyweight status to (at least mixed) streamliner status like the "Prospector" and "Royal Gorge"? And have the D&RGW owned heavyweight cars of the "Exposition Flyer" ever been repainted from Pullam green into the "Golden Grande"color scheme like the heavyweight cars of the "Prospector" and "Royal Gorge"? When was the "Exposition Flyer" discontinued?

I know I have a lot of questions, but I hope some can answer them all. Maybe there are some "not only narrow gauge but also main line" D&RGW experts here...

Regards

Daniel

[Deggesty]

Off the top of my head, I am able say that the Prospector ran through the Moffat Tunnel, and not through Pueblo. In the last years of the operation of the Royal Gorge, it was combined with the Prospector west of Glenwood Springs. There was no possible connection of the New Mexico, Utah & California Express with the AT&SF, since the New Mexico part went to Santa Fé over narrow gauge track. The name was, to say in the least, somewhat fanciful.

 

[ZephyrOverland]

But what about the "Scenic Limited Express" and the "New Mexico, Utah & California Express"?? Can somebody tell me when these trains have been inaugurated and discontinued? And between which cities they ran?

The New Mexico, Utah and California Express ran from 1902 to about 1910 from Denver to Ogden.  At this time, the Denver and Rio Grande operated from Denver to Grand Junction and the Rio Grande Western operated from Grand Junction to Ogden.  The companies operated through Denver-Ogden trains but each road applied a different name on their portion of the run.  The New Mexico, Utah and California Express was a Denver and Rio Grande name but when the Rio Grande Western took over the train at Grand Junction, the train became the California Express.  The name Pacific Express was also applied to the Rio Grande Western portion of the run at various times.  In 1902, the train handled a through Denver-San Francisco Pullman via SP.  Between Denver and Ogden a diner, Chair cars and smoking cars were operated.

As for the Scenic Limited (not Express), the Rio Grande operated two versions of this train.  Around 1906 there was a Denver-Ogden train (in this case the Denver & Rio Grande and Rio Grande Western both used the same name).  About 10 years later, around 1916, the Rio Grande Denver-Salt Lake City Scenic Limited was part of a coordinated St. Louis-San Francisco service with the Missouri Pacific and Western Pacific.   In addition to the Rio Grande Scenic Limited, the MP ran a St. Louis-Pueblo train called the Scenic Limited and the Western Pacific ran a Salt Lake City-San Francisco train also called the Scenic Limited.  Despite the name coordination of the three lines, only one through St. Louis-San Francisco Pullman was operated.  Each railroad operated their Scenic Limited independently, each on their own lines, through the mid 1930's.

In 1928, the Moffat tunnel was completed, giving the Rio Grande a faster route between Denver and Salt Lake City.  The Rio Grande Scenic Limited still ran but its prominence as a transcontinental link was compromised by the establishment of the Exposition Flyer in 1939.  Finally, the Rio Grande, Western Pacific, and the Burlington offered a service that was competitive to the Overland Route San Francisco trains.  As a result, the Western Pacific Scenic Limited gave way to the Exposition Flyer and the MP began a new St. Louis-Pueblo-Denver train, the Colorado Eagle, making its Scenic Limited a secondary train on the St. Louis-Pueblo route.

And what also interests me is, if these 2 trains I mentioned (as well as the" Exposition Flyer") have ever been upgraded from heavyweight status to (at least mixed) streamliner status like the "Prospector" and "Royal Gorge"? ... When was the "Exposition Flyer" discontinued?

The New Mexico, Utah and California Express name had disappeared by WW1.  The Scenic Limited may had some lightweight cars added to its consist, but it would have been an afterthought, since there were more important and newer trains on the Rio Grande by the time the lightweight era took hold.  As for the Exposition Flyer, it was replaced by the California Zephyr in 1949.  The Flyer was a heavyweight train to the end, except for a few California Zephyr dome coaches that operated on the Flyer late 1948 until the inauguration of the California Zephyr.

 

[daveklepper]

Thank you for an accurate and thorough answer.   Note that until the abandonment of the Colorado Midland, the Rio Grande Western also handled through cars to Ogdon from it as well as the Denver and Rio Grande from Grand Junction.

[KCSfan]

ZephyrOverland

The New Mexico, Utah and California Express name had disappeared by WW1.  The Scenic Limited may had some lightweight cars added to its consist, but it would have been an afterthought, since there were more important and newer trains on the Rio Grande by the time the lightweight era took hold.  As for the Exposition Flyer, it was replaced by the California Zephyr in 1949.  The Flyer was a heavyweight train to the end, except for a few California Zephyr dome coaches that operated on the Flyer late 1948 until the inauguration of the California Zephyr.

There is no mention of the New Mexico, Utah and California Exp in my 1937 OG so apparently that name had been dropped prior to that time. The name Colorado and New Mexico Exp (New Mexico and Colorado Exp in the opposite direction) is shown in the equipment section as trains no's. 15-315-115 which were both standard and narrow gauge. Equipment is shown as follows:

Std gauge coaches and sleeper Denver - Glenwood Springs

Std gauge coaches and sleeper Denver - Alamosa

Std gauge coaches and parlor car Salida - Gunnison

Narrow gauge coaches and dinette coach Alamosa - Durango

Narrow gauge coach(s) Durango - Silverton (mixed train)

Narrow gauge coach(s) Alamosa - Santa Fe (mixed train between Antonito and SF)

I believe the Santa Fe Branch was abandoned around 1939 after which time the Colorado and New Mexico Exp name was dropped  and the remaining narrow guage train between Alamosa and Silverton was renamed the San Juan.

Mark