While I rode in sleepers many times in the 1940 thru 1960 time period I can't recall the fare structure or find it in any of the references available to me. I know that each passenger had to have a first class rail ticket which, IIRC, was somewhere in the range of 30-50% higher than a coach fare. Did this percentage vary from railroad to railroad, and if so, what would be a good average figure to use?
Other than the obvious differences between the accommodations occupied (Sec, Rmt, DBr, etc.), was the Pullman fare based on trip miles or duration (number of days and/or nights)? What would the Pullman accommodation charge be for two persons in a DBr for a trip of say 950 miles taking one day and one night?
Mark
It would be tough to answer in a way, because the period you're talking about (1940-60) saw a big change in how things were done. Traditionally Pullman owned and operated the sleeping cars, and you would have two tickets - one to ride the train, collected by the train conductor; and one for your sleeping car berth or room, collected by the Pullman conductor. After WW2 Pullman had to sell off it's cars because of an anti-trust ruling saying in effect that by owning and operating the cars, Pullman was an unfair monopoly. So the railroads bought the sleepers and then hired Pullman to operate them...so the ticketing from then on was probably different than it was before, since the railroad now owned the cars.
KCSFan: "While I rode in sleepers many times in the 1940 thru 1960 time period I can't recall the fare structure or find it in any of the references available to me. I know that each passenger had to have a first class rail ticket which, IIRC, was somewhere in the range of 30-50% higher than a coach fare. Did this percentage vary from railroad to railroad, and if so, what would be a good average figure to use?"
In 1951, the Pullman rail fares in the South were about 50% higher than the coach fares. I do not have handy the rail fares for the East or West, but they may have been proportionate. For many years, rail fares were much the same in the East and South, with lower fares generally in the West, but after WWII, the Eastern roads petitioned for, and received, higher fares.
KCSfan: "Other than the obvious differences between the accommodations occupied (Sec, Rmt, DBr, etc.), was the Pullman fare based on trip miles or duration (number of days and/or nights)? What would the Pullman accommodation charge be for two persons in a DBr for a trip of say 950 miles taking one day and one night?"
The Pullman space charge seems to have been based on duration of occupancy. The following lower berth fares were charged in February of 1948 for an overnight trip from Washington, D. C., to the following various cities:
to Greensboro (284 miles)or Winston-Salem (311 miles), 3.50; to Charlotte (378 miles), 4.10; to Greenville (484 miles), 5.05; to Atlanta, (637 miles)6.60, to Birmingham (805 miles), 7.50.
From Washington to Mobile (990 miles), the charge for a double bedroom for two was 18.40 (lower: 9.25; upper 7.00; bedroom for one, 16.60; compartment for one, 18.40; compartment for two, 26.05; drawing room for one, 23.20; drawing room for two or more, 32.95).
There was a change in the Pullman fare structure between September 1, 1946 and December of 1947–seat fares were not changed, but berth fares were increased, with the lowest lower berth fare going from 2.35 to 3.50. (The two lowest fares, 2.35 & 2.65, were abolished, and the others were increased). This increase came before Pullman had to divest itself of the ownership of the cars; the next date of change that I have is in the Southern timetable dated August 5, 1951 (all of my Pullman fare information given comes from Southern timetables).
When Pullman ceased owning the cars, it did not cease operating the cars; it leased the cars from the various railroads, and so far as the traveling public knew, carried on as before. There was, of course, a corporate separation between the company that built rail cars and the company that operated the first class cars.. I doubt that any passenger was aware of the change unless he kept up with railroad news. The space ticket forms were the same, and the personnel were the same. After Pullman stopped operating the cars 12/21/68, the railroads which still had first class service had to provide the space ticket forms–and they varied from road to road.
I hope this has given you some of the information you requested.
Johnny
Something most travellers wouldn't have noticed (unless they were also railfans) was that after Pullman sold the cars they no longer would have "PULLMAN" in large letters on the letterboards of the cars as before. The railroad that owned the car would have their name there, with a smaller "PULLMAN" on one or both ends of the letterboard to indicate the lease-operation situation.
Adding to the above, my recollection is that the total percentwise addition, from regular to first class fare plus the separate occupancy charge (the first class fare being on the railroad ticket and the occuncy ticket the ticket collected by the Pullman conductor or porter in charge in the case of only one car) varied considerably. New York - Chicago was about double for a roomette as compaired with a coach seat, while Chicago - LA, Chicago - Denver, or Washington - New Orleans was only about 75% or 80& higher. NY - Florida was about double.
In 1960, the New Haven ran a "dollar saver sleeper" between Boston and NY on the Owl. This was a heavyweight 12 and one, and the births were only a few dollars, with no step up to First Class.
Deggesty In 1951, the Pullman rail fares in the South were about 50% higher than the coach fares. I do not have handy the rail fares for the East or West, but they may have been proportionate. For many years, rail fares were much the same in the East and South, with lower fares generally in the West, but after WWII, the Eastern roads petitioned for, and received, higher fares. The Pullman space charge seems to have been based on duration of occupancy. The following lower berth fares were charged in February of 1948 for an overnight trip from Washington, D. C., to the following various cities: to Greensboro (284 miles)or Winston-Salem (311 miles), 3.50; to Charlotte (378 miles), 4.10; to Greenville (484 miles), 5.05; to Atlanta, (637 miles)6.60, to Birmingham (805 miles), 7.50. From Washington to Mobile (990 miles), the charge for a double bedroom for two was 18.40 (lower: 9.25; upper 7.00; bedroom for one, 16.60; compartment for one, 18.40; compartment for two, 26.05; drawing room for one, 23.20; drawing room for two or more, 32.95). There was a change in the Pullman fare structure between September 1, 1946 and December of 1947–seat fares were not changed, but berth fares were increased, with the lowest lower berth fare going from 2.35 to 3.50. (The two lowest fares, 2.35 & 2.65, were abolished, and the others were increased). This increase came before Pullman had to divest itself of the ownership of the cars; the next date of change that I have is in the Southern timetable dated August 5, 1951 (all of my Pullman fare information given comes from Southern timetables). When Pullman ceased owning the cars, it did not cease operating the cars; it leased the cars from the various railroads, and so far as the traveling public knew, carried on as before. There was, of course, a corporate separation between the company that built rail cars and the company that operated the first class cars.. I doubt that any passenger was aware of the change unless he kept up with railroad news. The space ticket forms were the same, and the personnel were the same. After Pullman stopped operating the cars 12/21/68, the railroads which still had first class service had to provide the space ticket forms–and they varied from road to road. I hope this has given you some of the information you requested. Johnny
Johnny,
Many thanks for the info. It's exactly what I was looking for. If you happen to have access to it, please let me know the first class rail fare from Washington to Mobile in 1948 which I can add to the Pullman fares you supplied to arrive at the total cost of the trip.
daveklepper In 1960, the New Haven ran a "dollar saver sleeper" between Boston and NY on the Owl. This was a heavyweight 12 and one, and the births were only a few dollars, with no step up to First Class.
Dave,
In order to boost sleeper occupancy beginning around 1960 until the end of passenger service in 1969 the KCS too eliminated the first class fare on both their trains that carried sleeping cars (the Southern Belle and the Flying Crow). The last pre-Amtrak sleeper I rode was on the Belle between Shreveport and Baton Rouge in 1967. I remember paying only a coach fare plus the charge for the Roomette I occupied. I dare say there were at least a few other roads that instituted similar fare reductions as sleeper ridership decined precititously.
KCSfanMany thanks for the info. It's exactly what I was looking for. If you happen to have access to it, please let me know the first class rail fare from Washington to Mobile in 1948 which I can add to the Pullman fares you supplied to arrive at the total cost of the trip.
Mar, I do not have the rail fares for 1948, but they may have been the same in 1951, when one first-class ticket from Washington to Mobile as 34.78. Double this, add the space charge, and add 15% federal tax, and you have the total.
Incidentally, the berth charge between Washington and Birmingham was the same whether you had a through car via Roanoke or went through Atlanta and changed cars there (both of these were one night out trips). You could also have a one night out trip between New York and Birmingham via either route for the same space charge--or take two nights norhthbound by leaving on the car that left Birmingham on the overnight train to Atlanta and was switched to the Piedmont Limited in Atlanta.
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