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Reservations and Ticketing

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Reservations and Ticketing
Posted by RoyPBower on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:53 PM

Hey folks,

This topic has been bothering me for many years and I have yet to see the matter covered in any of the railroad publications.The answer may be a bit too detailed for this venue, but if I do not ask, I may never know.

Let's say it's 1939 and someone goes to a depot, let's say Macon, Ga and asks for a Pullman ticket to Denver a week later. How would the Macon station agent make the reservation over his line and the connecting lines? How could he be sure the space was available? Finally, would the passenger be issued one coupon for all trains or separate one for each road or each train?

Thanks!

Roy Bower

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Posted by K4sPRR on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:34 PM

I will quote a section of the Pullman Facts #1 that was published in 1929, I think it will help with your question.

"At Yuma, Ariz., George D. Brown, June 8, orders railroad and Pullman tickets through to Portland Me.; leaving June 10; stopovers of one day each in Washington and New York.  The transaction only requires a few minutes.  The ticket agent wires New Orleans for reservations beyond that point, specifying accomodations, route , dates.  New Orleans wires Washington and New York for reservations on their parts of the route; the answers are transmitted back to Yuma, and completed tickets prepared.  Before his train leaves, Mr. Brown pays for them and gets them.

  His name and Pullman ticket numbers are now on diagrams in the offices at Yuma, New Orleans, Washington and New York.  He boards the train with a small white envelope whos contents represent arrangements for a trip of over 3000 miles."

   In the book " Rising from The Rails", about Pullman operations it explains how a Porter prepared his assigned car.  He is given a list of patrons prior to his leaving the trains point of origin.  On his list a passenger may not board until they stop hours later along the route, he then prepares that room assuring no one uses it until that paying customer boards later on.

  Many Pullman cars went the entire route without requiring the passenger to change cars, that was one of Pullmans advantages as they coordinate routing with the various involved railroads.  The car, if necessary, was simply moved from one train to another.  Harrisburg PA was a well know spot for Pullmans being moved around with trains from Washington meeting New York trains that were westbound.  It was all done with very little inconvience to the passenger.

   Another book to look into other than Rising from the Rails, is Night Trains by Peter Maiken, it documents one day in the Pullman system, tracking each car and its route with all involved railroads.

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:02 PM

This topic has been well covered over tha past several weeks here and on the TRAINS pages.  Simply, agents used the official guide and thier own road's passenger rate bureau..telegraph and telephone connected the local agent with the rest of the railroad and the world.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:03 PM

RoyPBower

Hey folks,

This topic has been bothering me for many years and I have yet to see the matter covered in any of the railroad publications.The answer may be a bit too detailed for this venue, but if I do not ask, I may never know.

Let's say it's 1939 and someone goes to a depot, let's say Macon, Ga and asks for a Pullman ticket to Denver a week later. How would the Macon station agent make the reservation over his line and the connecting lines? How could he be sure the space was available? Finally, would the passenger be issued one coupon for all trains or separate one for each road or each train?

Thanks!

Roy Bower

Rocky Mount, NC 

Roy, you may want to look at this thread (in General Discussion): http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/160168.aspx 

In the first response to your question, K4sPRR gives the brief details of how someone who knew nothing about what route he could take would proceed.

One question you had may not be answered satisfactorily in the cited thread--"how many coupons...? Generally, when the separate railroads were operating passenger trains, there would be one coupon for each road, no matter how many trains you rode on a particular road.

If you were travelling first class and your train ran over more than one road, the railroad conductor on the first road would take all the coupons needed for that train, no matter how many roads forwarded the train, and pass the necessary coupons on to the conductor of the next road. There would be one Pullman coupon for each train with first class service, and the first Pullman conductor would take it, and pass it on to the next Pullman conductor IF there were a change of conductors along the way (most Pullman lines had one conductor for the entire trip).

If you were traveling coach, you might have to show your ticket at each division point (even in the middle of the night), unless you were riding a reserved seat coach train.  Most roads did issue a slip known as a "hat check" which showed where you were getting off so that you did not have to be waked in the middle of the night to show your ticket. A hat check, which would be placed on the edge of the overhead luggage rack, might show the name of your destination, or it might show the station number, or, it might even be marked in such a way that would indicate that you would have to show your ticket again after a certain point. In 1967, I rode the Silver Star from Jacksonville to Washington. No SCL conductor bothered me once we were away from Jacksonville, but after we left Richmond, an RF&P conductor came through and took the RF&P coupon.

Good riding on the Coast Line!

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:21 PM

RoyPBower
Let's say it's 1939 and someone goes to a depot, let's say Macon, Ga and asks for a Pullman ticket to Denver a week later. How would the Macon station agent make the reservation over his line and the connecting lines? How could he be sure the space was available? Finally, would the passenger be issued one coupon for all trains or separate one for each road or each train?

Roy, I just now reread this part of your question--and remembered that he could have had a through sleeper from Atlanta to Denver. So, in this case, the agent in Macon could get all the particulars by wiring the City Passenger Agent in Atlanta.

He would have to leave Macon at 6:45 (ET) in the morning, on the Royal Palm, arrive in Atlanta at 7:55 (CT), and wait until 3:40 in the afternoon to catch his through car to Denver. He would go through Birmingham, Kansas City, and Pueblo on his way (the agent in Macon would give him the particulars), and arrive in Denver at 1:30 in the afternoon after spending two nights on board. If he traveled coach to Atlanta, he would need two coupons on the Southern--one coach to Atlanta and one first class to Birmingham. If he traveled first class out of Macon, he would need only one Southern coupon. He would also need a first class SLSF coupon to Kansas City, a first class MoPac coupon to Pueblo, and a first class D&RGW coupon to Denver. He would need, at most, two space coupons--one to Atlanta and one to Denver. At that time, the car was a 12 section, drawing room car. He would travel on the Sunnyland from Atlanta to Kansas City, and then on the Scenic Limited to Denver.

Johnny

 

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:08 AM

One little tidbit is that the trains your passenger rode as a Pullman passenger in 1939 would have two conductors - one from the railroad running the train, the other a Pullman conductor. Your passenger would have tickets to ride on the train that the railroad's conductor would take, and also have separate tickets for his Pullman bed, which the Pullman conductor would take. The Pullman car was private property, owned and operated by the Pullman company, and the Pullman conductor was in charge of it, even though the railroad conductor was in overall control of the train.

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Posted by aricat on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:22 PM

One question I have is if the passenger traveling from Macon Georgia to Denver might want to save some money and travel from Macon to Memphis coach; then Pullman from Memphis to Kansas City, then coach Kansas City to Denver. Trains would be K.C. Florida Special from Macon to Kansas City and Portland Rose to Denver.The Southern agent in Macon would have to issue a ticket to Memphis in coach then a first class ticket from Memphis to Kansas City and a Pullman ticket Memphis to Kansas City and finally a coach ticket on UP to Denver; correct.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:35 PM

aricat

One question I have is if the passenger traveling from Macon Georgia to Denver might want to save some money and travel from Macon to Memphis coach; then Pullman from Memphis to Kansas City, then coach Kansas City to Denver. Trains would be K.C. Florida Special from Macon to Kansas City and Portland Rose to Denver.The Southern agent in Macon would have to issue a ticket to Memphis in coach then a first class ticket from Memphis to Kansas City and a Pullman ticket Memphis to Kansas City and finally a coach ticket on UP to Denver; correct.

Yes, it could be done. Indeed, there was such a thing as a mixed class ticket form (which I never bought, though I did have one opportunity to do so); I do not know if it had more than two coupons. I believe that it would have been possible to take a first class form and endorse two of the coupons "good for travel in coach only." The endorsement would have to be quite clear. Ordinarily, each road used stock of one color for one class and stock of another color for the other class, so a mixed class ticket looked a little odd.

Johnny

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 24, 2009 3:23 PM

My experience in riding the through connecting Wichita - Denver sleeper from Wichita to Colorado Springs (actually Palmer Lake, the porter forgot to wake me up in time!), no all tickets necessary for the trip were collected by the Porter in Charge of the sleeper when we left Wichita, and I never saw a conducor until finding both conductors in the diner leaving Colorado Springs after hurredly dressing to explain my situation.   I was blessed by the Palmer Lake towerman just going off duty when the train conductor had the train stopped and he drove me back to CS.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, September 26, 2009 10:03 AM

I don't think that en route step-ups from coach to Pullman were all that unusual, especially on secondary trains.  I remember while boarding the "Lake Cities" at Dearborn Station in 1969 for a short hop to Hammond, a pair of elderly women ahead of me in the boarding line explained to the conductor that they would be upgrading to the sleeping car at Youngstown, which is where the sleeping car was added to the consist.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 26, 2009 5:11 PM

While on the extra board in the late 40's, I would occasional relieve a ticket agent who was also a telegrapher.

I never sold an interline ticket, but what has not been mentioned so far was their LENGTH!  Several lengths of blank tickets were hanging on the wall, and the ticket agent would have to complete the various sections, one for each road (and room) before the travellers could start their journey.

The good agent would fill them out so that the first ones to be used were on the end.  As the trip progressed, the next stub to be used would always be on the end.  When the traveller finally reached the destination, home if a round trip, all that was left was the receipt.

Art

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:36 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

I don't think that en route step-ups from coach to Pullman were all that unusual, especially on secondary trains.  I remember while boarding the "Lake Cities" at Dearborn Station in 1969 for a short hop to Hammond, a pair of elderly women ahead of me in the boarding line explained to the conductor that they would be upgrading to the sleeping car at Youngstown, which is where the sleeping car was added to the consist.

You're right. Paul, the step-ups (or step-downs) were not at all unusual--which is why the roads had the mixed-class forms. As to the Lake Cities, I do not remember when the EL began taking the sleeper off in Youngstown westbound and putting it on there eastbound, but when I rode Chicago to Hoboken in September of 1969, that was the situation. I tried to get a roomette from Youngstown on, but there was none available, and I did not feel that I could swing the cost of a bedroom--so I spent the night coach. The diner was operated Hoboken-Huntington (I think).

Johnny

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:04 AM

I rode Hoboken - Chicago, early December 1969, Sleeper "Pride of Youngstown." going opposite to  "The Spirit of Youngstown" off at Youngstown, and the porter insisting he carry my luggage to the coach.   Diner off at Huntington.   Excellent dining car food.   No complaints.   On time.

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