Steam Engines with Vestibule Cabs

[AgentKid]

I was looking at today's (June 18) "Photo of the Day" on the Classic Trains homepage, of the IC Berkshire. Growing up around all things CPR, I always find it visually jarring when I see a locomotive the size of that Berkshire without an enclosed or Vestibule Cab. It's not that there is anything wrong with the cab on that Berkshire, it just looks odd to me.

An example of a Vestibule Cab

My apologies for the small size.

Vestibule Cabs started being built on CPR road engines about 1909, I believe, and when you are going down the track at 50+ MPH at -30 below or colder it seemed like a good idea.

My question, and I have actually wondered about this for many years, is how many US railroads built locomotives with cabs like this and which ones were they?

AgentKid

 

[selector]

This Pacific on the C&NW looks like it was enclosable.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnw/cnw-s514ana.jpg

and this Hudson on the C&NW was surely enclosed

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnw/cnw-s4008o.jpg

And Milwaukee Road's 4-4-4

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/milw/milw-s2ark.jpg

DM&IR Yellowstones

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dmir/dmir-s220dsa.jpg

Bessemer & Lake Erie's 2-10-4

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ble/ble-s618n.jpg

Boston & Maine 4-6-2

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bm/bm-s3713s.jpg

The GTW would of course be included, and there must be others.

-Crandell

[wjstix]

You generally only found them in the US on engines owned by northern railroads that had to run through very cold winters, and then often only on relatively modern engines.

Many engines had curtains that could be pulled across the back of the cab - something that was fairly common but rarely modelled. That's what you can see in Selectors' first pic. BTW the DMIR Yellowstone is the only pic that definetely had a fully enclosed vestibule type cab. I'm not sure about the others, they don't appear to have a side door like a vestibule cab would have (see below). But it's hard to tell on some of the pics.

Great Northern had some 4-8-4's that had all-weather cabs....

[henry6]

Basically I knew vestibuled cabs on eninges from New England, Canada, and other upper western U.S. an rarely anyplace else...I don't remember any in the Mid Atlantic or South and Southwest.

[tomikawaTT]

The PRR T-1 had a vestibule cab, dictated by the streamlining - there was no space for a gangway between the cab and the front of the tender.  Originally, they were fitted with full-size diaphragms.

Other streamlined steam locos with vestibule cab locos - SP GS-4s.

Aside from CN,CP and the GS-4, locos in Model Railroader Cyclopedia Volume 1, STEAM LOCOMOTIVES with vestibule cabs are three classes of 4-8-4 (D&RGW, MILW and NP,) a GN 2-8-2 and the DM&IR 2-8-8-4 previously mentioned.  Also a couple of teakettle tanks and a few Shays.  Apparently NYC and the New England roads didn't feel the need for all-weather crew protection.

Japanese practice gave later passenger locos vestibule cabs, while the freight hogs got along without them.  Other vestibule cabs - tank locos.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[tbiery]

Add a few more:

Northern Pacific Z8   4-6-6-4

Western Maryland  J-1  4-8-4   & M-2  4-6-6-4

Kansas City Southern   J  2-10-4

Southern Pacific  AC-9  2-8-8-4  

Southern Pacific cab forwards/cab aheads

Milwaukee F-7a  4-6-4

D&RG L-105  4-6-6-4

Wabash   O-1  4-8-4

CB&Q  O-5A  4-8-4

[challenger3980]

   Don't let the lack of a side entrance door fool you into thinking it is an open cab. The Union Pacific had many fully enclosed cabs, that still entered through folding doors from the tender deck plate. These would include the Big Boys, some if not all the Challengers, and as I recall the 844 and some of her Sisters, The 800's were built in three groups, I don't know if they all had enclosed cabs, especially the "Little 800s"(800-819). There likely others as well, that I don't know of on the UP system.

Doug

[artpeterson]

DT&I's  700-series Berkshires (Lima, 1935 and 1939, IIRC) also had all-weather cabs.  Does anyone have info on the class designation DT&O used on these two groups?  Art

[twhite]

Rio Grande had all-weather cabs on two of their locomotive classes, the Baldwin-built L-105  3700 series 4-6-6-4's and the M-68 1800 series 4-8-4's. 

They also had a home-built all-weather cab on one of their L-131 3600 series Alco 2-8-8-2's, but I can't remember the specific number on that particular road engine.  I believe it was #3614, but don't quote me.

Tom

[wjstix]

challenger3980

   Don't let the lack of a side entrance door fool you into thinking it is an open cab. The Union Pacific had many fully enclosed cabs, that still entered through folding doors from the tender deck plate. These would include the Big Boys, some if not all the Challengers, and as I recall the 844 and some of her Sisters, The 800's were built in three groups, I don't know if they all had enclosed cabs, especially the "Little 800s"(800-819). There likely others as well, that I don't know of on the UP system.

Doug

I might be wrong but I think there is a difference between an "all-weather" or "vestibule" cab and what might be called an "enclosed" cab. An all-weather cab had a fully enclosed metal cab, usually with a side door entrance.

[AgentKid]

Thank you to everyone who responded to my question.

I hadn't expected there would be a controversy about "all weather", "Vestibule", and "enclosed" cabs.

I had forgotten there were cabs built with folding doors, but I have seen pictures of those doors.

I wasn't surprised by the regions that used Vestibule cabs, but I was surprised by how few types the railroads that did, rostered. And I never did get a chance to ask a more specific question before it was answered. The PRR had one type and the NYC had no enclosed cabs. That was a surprise.

Thank you very much.

AgentKid