Battleship cars

[Trens]

Hello,

I'm writing because I'm translating a book from English into Spanish and I found a word related to trains that I don't understand: "battleship car". The book dates back to the 1930's and the action takes place in a a miners' town in the USA. Does anyone know what "battleship cars" were?

Thanks a lot,

 

[passengerfan]

Hello,

I'm writing because I'm translating a book from English into Spanish and I found a word related to trains that I don't understand: "battleship car". The book dates back to the 1930's and the action takes place in a a miners' town in the USA. Does anyone know what "battleship cars" were?

Thanks a lot,

 

The battleship cars were actually heavyweight Pullmans with 12 Sections and 1 Drawing Room the most common and numerous of all Pullman heavyweights.

Al - in - Stockton

[Trens]

Dear Al, 

Thank you very much for your answer. They were passenger cars, then? Were they also sleeping cars perhaps? Did they ressemble battleships in any way or do you know why they called them so? I apologise for asking such basic questions but I'm very illiterate as far as trains are concerned.

Again, thanks a lot

Trens

 

[wjstix]

The only "battleships" I can recall as far as railroad cars were freight cars called "battleship gondolas" because they were made of steel and very large for the time (1910's-20's) with six wheel trucks rather than the normal four wheel trucks. They kind of reminded people of a big steel boat I guess. They were used to haul coal primarily; if the story is set in a coal mining area it would make sense they'd refer to these cars.

Model pictures from http://www.con-sys.com/:

[nanaimo73]

I apologise for asking such basic questions but I'm very illiterate as far as trains are concerned.

Thank you for being honest. I would enjoy reading more of your questions along with the answers you receive.

[passengerfan]

Dear Al, 

Thank you very much for your answer. They were passenger cars, then? Were they also sleeping cars perhaps? Did they ressemble battleships in any way or do you know why they called them so? I apologise for asking such basic questions but I'm very illiterate as far as trains are concerned.

Again, thanks a lot

Trens

 

They were sleeping cars and were heavyweights and I think the nickname battleships came because they were the most common type Pullman Sleeping cars able to sleep 24 couples in the sections and two or three people in the drawing room with private bathroom annex. When used for transporting troops during WW II the officer was assigned to the Drawing room and the tropps were assigned two to each lower berth and one to each upper. Actually Pullman discouraged selling the upper berths to couples but when the trains were full they did not have much choice.

Al - in - Stockton

[wjstix]

I guess it's possible somebody somewhere called a Pullman car a "battleship" but it would be much less common than a battleship gondola.

I guess it would depend on the context of your story. If it talks about the freight yard being filled with "battleship cars" it's probably gondola cars for coal loading. A Pullman car would only be passing thru on a passenger train...and a  small mining town on a branchline probably would not have Pullman service anyway.

[CShaveRR]

A mining town, in the 1930s...had to be the coal gondolas.  C&O had a thousand of them beginning around 1920, and lasting until soon after World War II.  N&W's cars were a little older and quicker to go, but the Virginian's lasted into the 1950s--almost as long as the railroad!  These cars were a way to get about 100 tons of coal into one car in the days when four axles would permit no more than 70 tons of commodity.

[daveklepper]

The standard 12 and one heavyweight Pullman was not called a battleship.   It was called a dreadnaught.    Absolutely certain about this.

[wjstix]

The standard 12 and one heavyweight Pullman was not called a battleship.   It was called a dreadnaught.    Absolutely certain about this.

Yes I believe that is correct, Pullman 12-1 = "Dreadnought", Coal car = "Battleship Gondola". That would explain the confusion, since "dreadnought" was often used (esp. by the British) as another name for a large battleship.

[Great Western]

The UK Great Western Railway built, in 1905, some 70ft. long express passenger carriages (cars) known as Dreadnoughts.  These had three doors per side and were unpopular with the travelling public in the UK who were used to a door per compartment and a continuous corridor.  There were sleepers, diners, combine cars as well as full 3rd. class and full 1st. class cars.  An unusual thing about the full compartment cars was that the corridor changed sides half way down the car.  This was said to assist weight distribution.

[Kootenay Central]

Could someone here help, Please?

About Twenty Five Years ago another fellow and I were making a Road Trip from Butte, Montana to Denver and were Winding our way South thru the Back Roads.

 At what I THINK was Soda Springs, Idaho, we Stopped for Gas, Soft Drinks, etc. and did a QUICK Check of the Local Railroad Scene. In the Yard were 12-Wheel Plain Bearing Hoppers with Reporting Marks which ended in 'X' which I ASSUMED were in some sort of Local Captive Industrial Service. 

Time was Tight and we had to make Denver, so we could not Snoop Around.

I could be Wrong about the Location as he was Driving and I was Dozing.

Would anyone know more about these Cars? or have Photos of Same, Please?

Being 12-Wheel they were not Common, and were the First 12-Wheel FREIGHT Cars I had see Outside of Heavy Duty Flats.

( As an Aside, In the Sixties CPR did have some 12-Wheel Container Flats for Use on Passenger Trains Rebuilt from Heavyweight Passenger Cars, Retaining Steam and Signal Lines for Passenger Service. )

Thank You!

[wjstix]

 In the Yard were 12-Wheel Plain Bearing Hoppers with Reporting Marks which ended in 'X' which I ASSUMED were in some sort of Local Captive Industrial Service. 

Not sure what kind of hoppers those would be - the battleship gons were gondola cars, not hoppers - but X at the end of the reporting marks means the car is leased. The most common cars to be leased were refrigerator cars, like Fruit Growers Express (FGEX), Western Fruit Express (WFEX) Burlington Refrigerator Express (BREX) etc.; or in more recent times piggyback flats or container carrying cars. (Trailer Train has several reporting marks with "TT" in it and ending in "X".)

[andychandler]

I think you may be refering to "battleship gondola" , which were very large coal gondolas (for thier time.  I think the railroad was the Virginian Railroad.  Regards, andy chandler

[AgentKid]

As an Aside, In the Sixties CPR did have some 12-Wheel Container Flats for Use on Passenger Trains Rebuilt from Heavyweight Passenger Cars, Retaining Steam and Signal Lines for Passenger Service.

Hello K.C.

Do you know about what my father used to refer to as "Tender Truck Flats"? They were 12-Wheel flats but he said they were built with old tender trucks to carry extra heavy loads. I have read about the cars you mention before, and it never make sense to me that cars built from old coaches could carry large industrial equipment, which was on the car I remember seeing when I was a kid. I'm thinking I may be closer to an answer to a question that I have had for a very long time, than ever before. I hope you can help.

AgentKid

[Kootenay Central]

In the Late Sixties CPR used their 12 Wheel Passenger Container Flats on Trains 42 and 41 I think they were, East from Montreal to the Maritimes, and Yes! these Trains Handeled FISH!

At Windsor Station CP would Handle the Fish Cars with CP 7034 or CP 7041, Alco GE S2s, and we would sometimes get a Ride on the Engine and 'Noticed' the Fish Right away.

Oils Dripping from the Fish Cars would Coat the Rails in the Fish Spur, giving the Wheel Slip Buzzer on the Alcos a Work Out!

The CP Maritimes Trains were once Powered by CP's MLW 244 FPA/B2s and  S/G 'Passenger' RS10s, as the Train never got going Fast Enough to Require Units with Passenger Gearing. Severe Grades on the way to the International of Maine Division.

The Eastbound Train would be at Montreal West around the same time as the D&H Train to New York City which had Alco Passenger RS2s, then the PAs ex ATSF.

Later on the D&H would sometimes get an EL E8 such as 822.

Now, for Tender Flats.

Steel Mills ALWAYS had Kit Bashed Cars ( and Locomotives ) made from Candidates that Arrived by Rail for the Steel Furnaces.

Stelco at Hamilton, Ontario had a Fascinating Rail Operation with their Own Locomotives, Steam and Diesel, and they Constructed Heavy Duty Flats from 12 Wheel Locomotive Tenders as per this Link.

Scroll Down and Click on Stelco's Railway

 http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/articles.html

And Cut Up Steam Locomotives from NYC, C&O, TH&B, and I Assume, both, CP and CN.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/stelco/nychudson.htm

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/stelco/CO2808.jpg

( Looks like they were Planning a 4-10-4? )

As can be seen in the Main Article, Stelco Cut Up Ships including the 'Noronic' which Burned at Toronto in 1949 with Great Loss of Life.

The Above Site also Covers Granby Consolidated's Smelter at Anyox, B.C. up near Alaska, which had 3-Foot Gauge Baldwin Steeple Cabs!

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/industrial/all/bc/granby.htm

One of the Anyox Tank Engines still Exists.

http://members.shaw.ca/preservedsteamBC/images/Anyox2004015.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/preservedsteamBC/forgotten_bc_locis.htm

We watched CN Cut Up Steam in 1961, it was Gruesome, but Captivating, some of their Parts now Featured on eBay.

Railways usually kept Tenders as Water Cars for Steel or Extra Gangs, and for Fire Trains in the Mountains. Some of these Water Cars/Tenders Survived into the 1980s.

Train Crews HATED Water Cars/Tenders as they Frequently had Primitive Grab Irons and Stirrups on the Locomotive End.

Water Car/Tenders often still had COAL in them, with the Stoker Auger Cut Off with a Torch.

In the Eighties CP and CN 539s Worked their Last Miles as Switchers at the Steel Mill at Contrecoeur, Quebec before themselves Feeding the Furnaces.

CanCar Brill Coaches from Montreal went to Contrecoeur, too.

IPSCO at Regina Has/Had a Fleet of CP MLW Switchers, an Alco GE from California, and at least One EMD ex BN. Apparently ANOTHER Vintage BN EMC? Lurks at a Scrapyard in Regina.

Years ago we found an Alco HH in a Scrapyard, long before Pinkepank's First Diesel Spotter's Guide,and did not even know what it was, until we Read the Builder's Plates, Alco Schenectady 1936.

Steel Mills, Lovely Places for Railway 'Artifacts.'

[AgentKid]

Thank you K. C.

It would appear the CP did the same thing as Stelco as the car I saw was on the Langdon Sub at Irricana AB northeast of Calgary in the early 1960"s. I can't get over how much they look like I remember it.

AgentKid

[Kootenay Central]

Here is a Link to a Forum which has Photos of CP Locomotive Tenders Kit Bashed into Service Water Cars.

Scroll Down.

The Third Tender Down,  CP 415809,  shows why Trainmen Hated Switching with Tender Water Cars given the Paucity of Stirrups and Grab Irons on the Former Locomotive End.

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=Vancouver;action=display;num=1081468026;start=40

Thirty Years ago, one of my Jobs was Filling some of these Water Cars from a Garden Hose. It Took ALL WEEKEND!

The Tender in the 'Passenger' Scheme was a Frequent Visitor.

The Yellow Stripe Indicated that the Locomotive had a Steam Line Connection at the Rear and, Thusly, could be Used on a Passenger Train for Heat.

Tenders WITHOUT the Stripe usually did NOT have Steam Line Connection on Tender.

Of Course, as the Diesels Came, this was not Written in Stone, as Some Engines had their Tenders Swapped for Oil or Coal Districts to Run Out their Miles before Scrapping.

In Winter, when Steam Demand for Heat in Passenger Trains was High, a Second Locomotive would often be Added, the Lead Locomotive for Traction, and the Second for Some Traction and Train Heat.

Train Heating could take Lots of Steam if Minus 30 and WINDY, and this Used up Water and Coal/Oil.

Around Christmas was Tough. Heavy, Long Trains, Lots of Baggage and Express Cars, and, Generally, Much Snow, Wind, Darkness and Cold.

Sanders Needed!

[AgentKid]

Which reminds me of something I saw on TV many year ago. It was a short clip about a Steam Excursion somewhere in ON or QC, and they were talking to this old gentleman who said he was a retired Engineer. They asked him what he remembered most about his working days and he said one thing: "Trying to keep them running at 40 Below." The look on his face spoke volumes.

AgentKid

[arkansasrailfan]

Battleship cars=huge gons owned by several eastern railroads, Virginan owned many of them.