UP "Cities" Streamliners - Moving From CNW To MILW In 1955 - Good Or Bad?

[Los Angeles Rams Guy]

As a teenager growing up in Iowa during the 70's, I had read about the UP's "Cities" Streamliners and how, during the early-mid 1950's, dissension between the Union Pacific and the Chicago and North Western eventually led the UP switching the trains from the CNW to the Milwaukee Road in October, 1955.  Even though I wasn't around yet when it actually happened, I had a lot of mixed feelings about it.  One the one hand, the MILW was, and still is my fav railroad from a railfan standpoint as I grew up very close to it (along with the IC/ICG).  On the other hand, it seems like the real glory years of the UP's passenger trains were when they were on the CNW's portion of the "Overland Route" and the pictures I've seen sometimes makes me wish I could have been around then to experience that.  Does anyone out there know what was the cause(s) of the "Big Switch" and whether it was a good thing or bad thing in retrospect?   

[nanaimo73]

We can't give the blame/credit to Ben Heineman, as he moved from the M&StL to the C&NW in 1956.

The CMSP&P spent $5.5 million for 18 E9 locomotives and 6 road-switchers, as well as $1.5 million for signaling, plus car refurbishment and more crews. The C&NW kept the freight traffic, so it was a good deal for them.

[Los Angeles Rams Guy]

Dale,

Interesting you should mention that.  Back in May, 1978 when I was still in H.S. I had something of an informational "meeting" with the Milwaukee Road trainmaster in Marion.  We were talking about this subject and he told me that one of the provisions of the deal was that the MILW was supposed to get the lion's share of the UP overhead freight traffic.  Obviously, it didn't work out that way for the MILW.

[KenRuben]

Hi Everyone:

I remember Trains Magazine covering the "switch" in one of their issues and I can probably do some research on the exact issue at a later time.

One of the reasons for the switch I remember from Trains, was that the C & NW was becoming "bumpy", etc.

Also, some of the anecdotal info in the issue I am talking about was that Passenger Reps were on the first westbound Milwaukee-UP train,  Challenger-Midwest Hiawatha.

The first  UP eastbound train to operate over the Milwaukee was the City of Denver.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the rest of the article.

 I hope this is of some help and I forward to more comments from other readers.

 ---"Ken" Ruben---

[wjstix]

Interesting that UP gave up on the CNW in 1956, then forty years later, UP bought the CNW.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Interesting that UP gave up on the CNW in 1956, then forty years later, UP bought the CNW.

It would appear that while UP's passenger trains were re-routed onto MILW, C&NW continued to get a sizable chunk of the freight traffic.

[Los Angeles Rams Guy]

Hi Everyone:

I remember Trains Magazine covering the "switch" in one of their issues and I can probably do some research on the exact issue at a later time.

One of the reasons for the switch I remember from Trains, was that the C & NW was becoming "bumpy", etc.

Also, some of the anecdotal info in the issue I am talking about was that Passenger Reps were on the first westbound Milwaukee-UP train,  Challenger-Midwest Hiawatha.

The first  UP eastbound train to operate over the Milwaukee was the City of Denver.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the rest of the article.

 I hope this is of some help and I forward to more comments from other readers.

 ---"Ken" Ruben---

Wish I could somehow get my hands on THAT issue of Trains.

[Los Angeles Rams Guy]

You know, another consideration that comes into my mind is the number of stops on the CNW vs. that of the MILW.  On the CNW, for example, you presumably had Clinton, downtown Cedar Rapids, Marshalltown (?), Ames, Boone, and Carroll while on the MILW you only had Marion and Perry.  Was the MILW then, in a back-handed way, a faster route across Iowa than the CNW or not? 

[jrbernier]

  Most accounts indicate that the 'switch' was done due to rought track and bad time keeping over the C&NW.  The UP/C&NW 'feud' had been going on for some time.  The C&NW just could not invest the funds to support the trains in the manner that the UP required.  The C&NW was having funding issues all over thier system by that time.  The UP threats to move the trains were not taken seriously by C&NW as they did clearance work in their Chicasgo terminal to accept the new dome cars that UP had just ordered.

  Whe the Milwaukee Road won the contract, I would assume that their management expected to gain a greater share of the overhead freight traffic to the UP connection in Omaha as well.  This never really materialized like the Milwaukee desired.  They did gain about a train a day of new traffic, but most of the 'junk' traffic still was routed via the C&NW, and the high priority traffic started migrating to a joint CB&Q/UP train via Grand Island.  The UP/MILW deal was a natural as they already shared traffic/routes in the Pacific Northwest.  I think the Milwaukee Road management had much higher expectations than what the reality really was.

  For the C&NW, there was the 'public' loss of the 'Overland Route' trains, but in retrospect; things really worked out for them and future passenger losses were minimized.

Jim

[timz]

...by C&NW as they did clearance work in their Chicasgo terminal to accept the new dome cars that UP had just ordered.

C&NW had to do that anyway, for their galleries.

[The Mighty Oz]

They did it so that over a half century later, us Milwaukee Road modelers in HO scale would be able to have a fleet of yellow and gray streamlined cars!

Well, some of the cars are useable in the "Cities" fleet....

 

 

 

[espeefoamer]

I recall reading a softcover book on C&NW dining car service several years ago,and one of the reasons UP switched to MILW was that UP felt that the dining service and foood quality had started to slip on the C&NW.

[passengerfan]

I have looked at the switch for years and have done a fair amount of research on the subject.

The primary reason for the switch was the C&NW was not cleaning the cars inside like they had in the past and the UP was buying newer equipment that the C&NW could not afford and truthfully they wanted out of the long distance train service.

The only choice for UP between Omaha and Chicago was the Milwaukee Road. That RR had alot more equipment than the C&NW and only needed to buy a few 10-6 sleepers from the UP.

The Milwaukee Road was also willing to convert their homebuilt coaches to leg rest seats for UP service.

The Olympian Hiawatha was discontinued in 1960 so this made even more long distance equipment available to the pool.

The one thing that always impressed the UP about the Milwaukee Road equipment was the trucks their streamlined equipment road on. Long distance crews preferred Milwaukee Road Crew Dormitory cars for the comfortable ride those trucks provided. 

Al - in - Stockton     

[erikem]

The one thing that always impressed the UP about the Milwaukee Road equipment was the trucks their streamlined equipment road on. Long distance crews preferred Milwaukee Road Crew Dormitory cars for the comfortable ride those trucks provided. 

Nystrom (cheif mechanical officer of the Milwaukee) did a thorough job researching what made a good riding high speed truck - such that he was quoted by White in his book on the American Railraod Passenger Car. 

[Los Angeles Rams Guy]

I have a lot of fond memories of seeing the "Cities" trains at Marion, Iowa on the Milwaukee Road's Chicago-Omaha mainline and I think it was a pretty good fit - all in all - after the 1955 switch from the CNW.  I'm curious, though, if the UP also looked at either the Rock Island or perhaps even the Illinois Central as possible alternatives.  With the Rock you had Des Moines, Iowa City and the Quad Cities for stops and with the IC you had Ft. Dodge, Waterloo, and Dubuque which are all bigger than the MILW stops at both Marion and Perry. 

[jrbernier]

  The Bi-Level commuter cars arrived as the 'Cities' trains left in 1955- the clearance project was for the expected UP dome cars.  The UP order was placed in 1952, and deliveries started in 1954.

Jim

[timz]

May 1954 Trains says "Chicago & North Western is raising the train shed of its Chicago terminal a foot to accommodate domes and gallery-type cars now on order."

The 1/55 UP timetable mentions dome coaches on the Challenger (no dome lounges or diners by then) but Dorin's book suggests that was slightly premature.

[KenRuben]

Hi Everyone especially Los Angeles Rams Guy:

I was able to get the page from the January 1956 issue of Trains Magazine entitled:  MILWAUKEE GOES TO NEW PLACES.

It is too long to retype and I don't have a scanner or one available, but some highlights:

All the talk and planning and physical effort came to a boil early Sunday morning October 30, as the easbound City of Denver slid into Omaha Union Station behind C&NW diesels 5024B and 5008B.  These units were uncoupled and replaced by Milwaukee Road's 17A, 94B and 101B.  While passengers slept in darkened coaches, roomettes and bedrooms, officials congregated about the locomotive, flashbulbs rent the chilly darkness, and then at 12:58 a.m., Engineer Bernard Olson latched out the E7's stubby throttle to snap a 75-year-old tradition and begin another.

Within the article, there are 4 black and white photos at Davis Junction, Illinois by Jim Scribbins who worked for the Milwaukee Road as a ticket agent, and occasionally wrote for Trains Magazine.

First photo-City of San Francisco with a UP diesel at the head-end with 102 in the number board location on the engine.

Second photo-train 107-Challenger-Midwest Hiawatha with what looks like an A-B-B-A lineup of Milwaukee Road units with a UP RPO right behind. 

Third photo-Train 104-City of Los Angeles with a UP E unit leading the train (cannot see the number board very well).

Fourth photo-Train 106-City of Portland with the flat-end dome observation-lounge and the neon sign City of Portland name on the rear.

Equipment - West Milwaukee Shops refurbished and repainted (in UP yellow with red and grey trim) enough streamlined cars to make up Milwaukee's share of the pool:  1 mail car, 6 express cars, 3 dormitory cars, 18 coaches, 7 tap cars and 3 diners.  (Another 4 or 5 cars will be added at a later date).

There is more and time permitting, will post additional information from that particular issue.

Your comments are welcome.

 

---"Ken" Ruben---

 

 

 

 

[Los Angeles Rams Guy]

Ken,

Thanks for your post.  That was really cool to read.  Only wish I could get my hands on that issue of Trains somehow. 

[beaulieu]

Trains Magazine might make it available as a .pdf file.