Southbound steam from Washington, 47/48?

[dan green]

Was there still an all steam service from Washington, DC to Mississippi in 1947/48 or was this only limited to the N&W stretch between Lynchburg and Bristol by this time? It doesnt seem like the N&W connected to Washington or New York, and the Southern was running diesels. 

I heard a recount of a steam connecting service at Washington around this time and I was wondering what it could have been. Apparently it was a noticeable step down from the stylish all Pullman PRR from New York;  fewer cars and Pullman sleepers with an aisle and upper and lower berths on either side.

[daveklepper]

At the start of 1947, the only diesel passenger on the Southern to Bristol, and N&W to Roanoke, and the Southern further on to Chattnooga, Memphis, Brimingham, and New Orleans, was the Tennesean, with usually diesels between Washigton and Bristol, but occasionally a PS-4 was used.  And of course, the Southener to New Orleans, with one E-unit via the Southern's own route through Atlanta and Birmingham.  The Pelican, the Aiken-Augusta Speical, the Piedmont Limited, the Crescent, and others were all steam hauled.  By the end of 1948, diesels were consistant on the Tennesean to Bristol, and the Crescent ran behind diesel, if my memory is correct, but the others were still behind steam.

Certainly, the PRR parlor cars were stylish.  Not quite the B&O's parlor cars, but still pretty stylish.   And only GG-1's were used.  I could understand how moving from a parlor-car to an open-section sleeper could be considered a step down, but actually it wasn't.   If he had rode the Tennesean, he probably would have had a through sleeper, with a fairly high proportion of closed rooms, such as compartments, bedrooms, and drawings rooms.  He (or she?) must of been on one of the other trains, which would have been steam.

[dan green]

I'm interested in The Pelican, though I haven't found a lot of information online. There is a site that suggests it was mostly diesel by 1948 (http://www.geocities.com/~sou-ry/) - "name trains" link - and also suggest the same about The Birmingham Special, that's what made me wonder when I heard of this steam connection.

What would have been the main PRR NY - Washington connecting train at this time? The Representative? What would have the consist looked like? Is there a good site that describes the Pullman car types with diagrams?

Thanks

Dan 

 

 

 

[daveklepper]

I don't have the required source material.   So, from memory:

Most corridor trains (both New Haven and Pennsy) were different than most long distance trains, in that the parlor cars were at the front, not the rear of the train.  You would have had GG-1, then some head-end equipment, which might include one or two shorty B-60 single-door-per-side, high arch roof Pennsy bag cars, express refers or other express freight equipment, with the diamond red Railway Express label on them as well as Pennsy letterboard, possibly some though head-end cars from one or two of connections to the south.  I don't recall any Railway Post office equipment on this train, but I might be wrong.  I also do not recall any through Pullmans.  The would come two or three heavyweight Pennsy Parlors, full 80-foot long cars on six-wheel trucks, either the Pennsy's own adaption of the Commonwealth type, without visible drop-equalizer bars, or the trucks typical under heavyweight Pullmans with two such bars on each side.   The interiors had one private drawing room with movable chairs, and a single row of swivaling parlor chairs on each side, possibly about sixteen or eighteen on each side.  The attendent could bring a small table with one leg and a connection to fit into a wall socket to place by a passenger who ordered drinks.  I think the color of these seats was a light green, and the center-ailse carpet was either also light green or brown.  Next would be a heavyweight dining car, seating about 48, with six tables on each side, each seating four, with white tableclothes and silverware, and white plates with wide tuscon and narrow gold outside circles and the keystone.  The kitchen generally was toward the rear of the train, with the aisle on the left side.   Then came anywhere from four to ten coaches, all various types of P-70's.  In 1947, during period of heavy traffic, with ten cars on the train, some may have not been modernized but have had low-back high-density (72?) seating, regular operable windows, and no air-conditioning, vestibules at both ends, small lavatories.   This would not have been true at the end of 1948. By the end of 1948, some of the advanced deluxe modernized versions, used in 1948 during heavy traffic periods only on some through Boston trains and on the Congessionals, but available on other trains during off periods.   These had reclining seats (56?), low arch roofs replacing the monitor or cleristory roofs, large restrooms, wide picture windows, vestibules at one end only, and looked like lightwieght equipment built new, but they were rebuilt P70's for all that.  And then there were all kinds of P70's between these two extremes.  All were on 4-wheel trucks, and again there were two types of trucks used, a minority with the typical MCB drop-equalizer type and most with a truck peculiar to the Pennsy with sliding supports or stabilizers above the bolsters at the car bodies' edges.  When I say there were all kinds of modernized P70's, I mean just that.   There were modernized cars, fully modernized with picture windows and reclining seats but retaining monitor roofs, and there were lightweight looking cars with high-backed non-reclining seats and small windows retained.  But all modernized cars had air conditioning. 

All equipment except interline head-end from southern connections would have been Tuscan red, except of course the GG-1 in Brunswick Green, nearly black.  

[BigJim]

It doesnt seem like the N&W connected to Washington or New York,

Dan,
Maybe not exactly what you are looking for, but, the N&W did connect with New York City.  However, it went from Roanoke, Va. up the Shenandoah Valley into Hagerstown, Md. There the train was handed over to the Pennsy and on into Harrisburg, Pa. and points north.

N&W trains between Roanoke and Hagerstown, #1 (southbound) & #2 (northbound), were handled by steam up until early 1957. The N&W streamlined K2 & K2a 4-8-2 locos just like the famous J class.

 

[daveklepper]

You are correct.   There were through NY - Roanoke sleepers on this route, and the latest CLASSIC TRAINS article on the swap at Harrisburg mentioned one.   But no through coaches.   However, I believe at least for a time, there were through Tennesean coaches to New York via N&W to Bristol, Southern to Washington, and PRR to New York.   So either way you started out on the  N&W and ended up on the PRR.  The tickets were not interchangable, but you could buy a round-trip ticket for the same price going one way and coming back the other.

Before the streamlined 4-8-2's, weren't the famous 4-8-0's, a type peculiar to the N&W used on 1 and 2?  Some did have connections for steam heat and communication.