rail freight of the 40is

[classicbonham]

hello all,

i am asking for help in finding anything on rail freight of the war years ( 38,39-45,46),

i live in the U.K. and i am trying to find anything on the U.S.A. rail freight of the years above,

especially freight carried for the war industry e.g. tanks, bombs ,oil-fuel , aircraft parts ,etc....

it would be great for any help as i keep coming to a blank.

cheers

classicbonham 

[jimrice4449]

Probably the most immediate and profound difference would be the sudden need to transport petroleum products by rail instead of sea due to the refusal to impliment convoying and blackouts along the Eastern Seaboard (1942 was called "The Happy Time" by U-boat crews).   Solid trains of tank cars were instituted from the SW US to the east coast.   Most other changes would be in the nature of increased volume although flat cars loaded w/ tanks and military vehicles would be a visible change.  There is a video tape available made up of PR films of the SP showing trains loaded w/ pontoons for bridges in gondolas, most definately not something to be seen in peacetime.

[cnwfan51]

   If you can find it Classic Rains did a special issue on railroads during WWII and if you cant find let me know by either email or pm and I will send you my copy   Larry

[rji2]

Here's an example of the petroleum movements referred to in one reply.  When I was a teen-ager in the '40's, I lived adjacent to the Atlanta & St. Andrews Bay Railway's main track north of Panama City, Florida.  Petroleum would be shipped by inland barge from Texas-Louisiana to Lynn Haven, Florida, and transferred to rail tank cars.  Every afternoon, a train would leave Lynn Haven for Dothan, Alabama.  It was usually powered by three Alco RS-1's, and spaced after five cars, a steam locomotive, to provide sufficient power to conquer the uphill climb north of Fountain, Florida.  I could almost set my clock by this train.  It would be a solid train of loaded tank cars.  From reading elsewhere, I understand that similar movements were made on many other routes.  The destination was probably somewhere in the north east.  This A&StAB train went to the Central of Georgia at Dothan.  Submarines took a terrible toll of shipping on the Atlantic Coast and in the Gulf of Mexico during the early years of WWII.  Many ships were sunk within sight of the shore.

[wjstix]

A lot of everything moved by rail, railroads brought old engines and cars out of storage to meet the demands. Railroads wanted diesels, but they were parcelled out by the government, so many railroads that ordered FT diesels got similar horsepower steam engines instead (oddly enough, the Minneapolis and St.Louis ordered 2-6-6-2's and got FT's instead!!).

All passenger trains were usually packed "standing room only" style like subway cars, even on long trips taking several days. Besides regular passenger trains, extra "troop trains" were run carrying soldiers and sailors from various training bases etc. Tanks, jeeps, trucks were all transported on flatcars from their manufacturers to various bases and to ports for shipment overseas. Railroads that carried raw materials like iron ore, grain etc. were working at full capacity. Someone calculated that the amount of iron ore taken from Minnesota's Mesabi Iron Range during WW2 would have taken something 50 years to remove going by pre-war shipping figures.

This is the special issue of Classic Trains, "Railroads and World War II", a good place to start....

https://secure.kalmbach.com/offer/Default.aspx?c=IF7BKK4

[classicbonham]

hello,

would this be the lateset issue that has not long came out.

if so it had some great articals bud nothing on wot i am really after, whitch is

all sort of picture`s of the freight that was carried  for the ARMY, ARMY AIRFORCE & NAVAL, ETC......

is there any video`s or DVD`s out there at all ? 

 i would like to say thank you for all your reply`s so fare

 

[wjstix]

No this isn't a regular issue of "Classic Trains". The various Kalmbach magazines offer "special issues" a couple of times a year that are sort of like separate books, usually on a specific topic. They aren't part of a regular subscription. The one I put in the link to is a recent special issue exclusively about US railroading during WW2 - what they hauled, conditions encountered, etc. and includes many pics of the era.

Beyond that issue, I don't know if there are any books or video/DVD's out there exclusively about railroading in WW2?? There were some promotional films put out by the AAR during the war that talked about all the work the railroads were doing, it could be some of them are/were reissued as videos or DVD's.

I think there was a book called something like "The Railroads go to War" or something similar...however I think that was about the entire history of railroads in war, not just WW2.

[classicbonham]

hello,

yes i have that issue,

ill keeping looking you never know i mite come across wot im looking for.

thank you very much for all your help.

cheers

 

[wjstix]

One thing to keep in mind is that photographing trains during the war, particularly troop trains or trains hauling military items (like tanks, trucks etc.) was...well, maybe not prohibited, but strongly discouraged. If a train crew hauling a train of tanks on flat cars saw someone out in the country taking a picture of the train, they probably would notify the station agent at the next station they came to, and the local sheriff's men would investigate to see if they could talk to the guy to find out who he was and what he was doing.  

SO...pics of trains you describe may not be all that prevalent. Plus of course film was in short supply during the war - not sure but I think it was rationed??

You might find more info by looking at a particular railroad, a general history of that railroad would probably have coverage of what that railroad did during WW2, what it hauled etc.

WB Video did offer a video called something like "A Forties Memory", not sure if it's been offered as a DVD or not. I have the video but haven't watched it for a while, but IIRC it was mostly post-war stuff.

[mobilman44]

Hi!

As someone wrote earlier "everything" went by rail in the '40s!

I believe coal was the primary single commodity, and oil was heavy especially during the early '40s (before the "big inch" pipeline from Texas to the northeast was completed).  After the war automobile production kicked up and many were shipped in "automobile" boxcars. 

Lumber, steel, ore, livestock, and wartime materials were of course big in the early '40s, and with the exception of the wartime materials, the other commodities continued on through the end of the decade.

While there certainly was long distance truck movements in the '40s, they really didn't cut into the rail traffic significantly until the interstates were completed in the mid '50s. 

ENJOY,

Mobilman44 

[Anonymous]

hello,

would this be the lateset issue that has not long came out.

if so it had some great articals bud nothing on wot i am really after, whitch is

all sort of picture`s of the freight that was carried  for the ARMY, ARMY AIRFORCE & NAVAL, ETC......

is there any video`s or DVD`s out there at all ? 

 i would like to say thank you for all your reply`s so fare

 

 

There are some surviving WW2 Newsreels.

I'll need a moment to find the links.

[Anonymous]

Found the WW2 newsreel:

 http://www.archive.org/details/TroopTra1943

Keep in mind that this was generated and shown in main street movie theaters weekly or monthly during the war years and censorship was quite heavy at the time.

We see it today as valueable filled with nuggets from that time. But in those years people were all working to make it happen in a time of war.

During the reel you will hear the dispatchers refer to trains as "MAIN xxxx" X= number. These were the highest priority troop and material trains on the entire railroad that moved it. I think Potus was only higher.

It was certainly a different time, one that is filled with boys and girls who knew thier places and were much easier to be around than today's sue-happy PC idiots.

Download and burn the video to DVD or CD, it will play a bit easier.

There are other news reels on that site, I think New Haven Railroad had a three part video and one where they put handicapped people such as the blind (For parachute making !!) Deaf (For very loud factory work) etc to work for the war effort.

[Dr Leonard]

I have an extra copy of that CLASSIC TRAINS World War II issue available on my web site, http://www.railarchive.net/rriana/ .

[daveklepper]

We tend to think of the main difference in operation being the wide use of steam instead of diesel power, but other differendes were also important:

1.   Very limited use of CTC.

2.   Wood freight cars still in use, many using outside steel bracing, lots of wood cabooses.

3    Jointed rail for about 99% of the USA's track.

4.   The 40-foot 40-ton-load box car typical.

5.   Lots and lots of grade crossings, but with gas rationing, little traffic

6.   No radios for personel, had signals, lanterns, etc.

7.   Lots of people, a labor intensive industry

[Great Western]

Greetings,

 The troop train archive film was very interesting to watch.  It did mention Britain as a destination for many of the servicemen and their equipment.  My area of South Western England was a training area and departure point for American and Canadian servicemen who were bound for the Normandy beaches.

The whole web site look like many hours could be spent in research.  Many thanks for the link. 

I usually only visit the Garden Railways Forum but have recently started to visit here.  There is much for model railroaders to find of interest. 

[AltonFan]

IF you can find it, try to get a copy of the late Don Ball, Jr.'s Decade of the Trains: the 1940s.  Most of the photographs were taken by government personnel to document the railroads' contribution to the war effort.  I seem to remember pictures of a CNW crew switching boxcars in Proviso Yard.

[alphas]

Great Western,

I knew the late Trainmaster for the graveyard (23:00 to 07:00) shift for the Pennsylvania Railroad on its Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to Altoona,Pennsylvania division during much of WWII.  This is a very mountainous division which includes the famous Horseshoe Curve.  It is about 110 miles long.  On many a night he had to handle 200 freights and troop movements, plus 60 or more passenger trains in that 8 hours.  (Sometimes he had as many as 4 sections of a scheduled passenger train.)   The line was four tracked which was the only reason they could accomplish it.   But he said every night was an adventure and wore him and everyone else out.

[gbrewer]

This little memour (at http://RailroadPhotoEssays.com) from my early memories of the time might be of interest: http://www.railroadphotoessays.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1056

[KCSfan]

It hasn't been mentioned yet but the wounded also moved by rail in hospital cars. I was nine years old when the war began and lived right along the IC's Chi - NO mainline and distinctly remember the sad sight of whole trains made up of maybe 20 of these cars carrying casualties to military and VA hospitals where many would live out the rest of their lives. Those trains received very careful handling by the hoggers who ran the steam engines that headed them.

Mark

[wjstix]

It hasn't been mentioned yet but the wounded also moved by rail in hospital cars. I was nine years old when the war began and lived right along the IC's Chi - NO mainline and distinctly remember the sad sight of whole trains made up of maybe 20 of these cars carrying casualties to military and VA hospitals where many would live out the rest of their lives. Those trains received very careful handling by the hoggers who ran the steam engines that headed them.

Mark

At the same time the CNW had some passenger cars with special extra-wide doors that were used on the Minnesota 400 that connected Chicago with Rochester MN and the Mayo Clinic, so that ill people could be moved by stretcher more easily when going to the Clinic for care.