Cab on top of prr tenders

[Alco C630 Fan]

I was wondering if any one can help me, I'm trying to find out information on what the use was for the cab on top of PRR's large steam engine tenders.

[coalminer3]

It was called a "doghouse" and was used to carry the head brakeman.

work safe

[daveklepper]

Note that only freight locomotives had them and not all.   Typically, those locomotives permanently assigned to helper service did not have them.   Lots of Mikados, Decopads, and some Consolidations had them.   No K4 or E6 or D16 ever had them as far as I know.   And the Pennsy was more particular than most railroads about freight power for freights and passsenger for passsenger.  The ten wheelers and Mountain-types were the exception, but I don't recall a dog house on any G-5 tender.    I think I saw them on M-1 tenders but a, not sure.  Can anyone help on this?

[dredmann]

That "cab" is not just a PRR thing; as I understand, at some point the union(s) bargained for, and got, an agreement that the railroads would provide, in new and rebuilt locomotives, seating and shelter for the head-end brakeman equivalent to what the fireman had. In some cases the brakeman got a cab-extension behind the fireman, and in some cases he got a doghouse. By the way, I think most if not all doghouses had some provision for heating.

Now you can argue that a doghouse is not really comparable to a seat in the cab; the brakeman is isolated from the rest of the crew, and perhaps even more cramped. Also, arguably he is in a very exposed position in the event of a derailment.

In February I got to ride in a doghouse over a main line. It was fun, but I was facing rearward on the engineer's side. The view was limited, out only a window on the side and the door onto a walkway along the tender. And as you might imagine, it is not the smoothest place to ride. On the other hand, smoke was not nearly the problem I feared it might be.

[selector]

The Norfolk & Western also had doghouses on their large coal tenders.  I had always understood that slow firemen and officious conductors were required to spend time in them.

[robscaboose]

The head brakeman sat in the doghouse facing the trailing portion of the train.  That way he could watch for problems with the train (hot boxes) derailments, hobos.  Plus he was in position to start setting hand brakes on the roofs of cars as the train began to go downgrade. 

The doghouse gave the brakmen a measure of protection from the elements.  Depending on the engineer, brakemen were not always welcome in the cab of the engine.

I remember a story from my wifes uncle who worked on the PRR (Altoona) about how the brakemen would sit down by the draft gear to get warmed by the heat from the applied brakes in the winter time.

 

Rob

[dredmann]

The head brakeman sat in the doghouse facing the trailing portion of the train.  That way . . . he was in position to start setting hand brakes on the roofs of cars as the train began to go downgrade.

By the time the doghouse appeared, or at least became common, setting hand brakes on the roofs of cars should have long been a thing of the past, no? I was under the impression that air brakes took over before 1900, and the doghouse was unusual until 1920 or so.

 

[tomikawaTT]

When the streamstyled N&W Js were abruptly yanked off passenger assignments by Stuart Saunders some were fitted with doghouses and given freight assignments.  Of course, the N&W had long since fitted doghouses to its articulateds.

Chuck

[oldline1]

If you notice looking at Pennsy steam locos they usually had small cabs compared to most other railroads. There was not much room for the headend brakeman to ride. The Pennsy also wanted the crew to be doing their jobs which would have been for the headend man to watch the train for any signs of trouble. The doghouse provided some protection for him from the elements and got him out of the cab.

I don't recall ever seeing a PRR G5s with a doghouse. The Pennsy was a big user of doghouses while many roads either used them infrequently or not at all.

The B&O didn't use doghouses but often rebuilt cabs with an extra seat and window on the fireman's side for the headend man.

The N&W did add doghouses to some J's when they were bumped to freight service. It was not a normal practice on the N&W to have a doghouse on the passenger engines as the headend brakeman was a part of the train crew and normally wore a passenger crewman's uniform like the conductor. He was inside the train and would also assist the conductor with ticket collection, etc. I don't know about the PRR and other roads but I was told by an old N&W engineer that the houses on the 22D through 22J tenders (like on the class A and Y-5 to Y-6b) had steam heat lines running through them with a control valve.

Roger Huber

[J. Edgar]

The head brakeman sat in the doghouse facing the trailing portion of the train.  That way . . . he was in position to start setting hand brakes on the roofs of cars as the train began to go downgrade.

By the time the doghouse appeared, or at least became common, setting hand brakes on the roofs of cars should have long been a thing of the past, no? I was under the impression that air brakes took over before 1900, and the doghouse was unusual until 1920 or so.

 

work rules dictated the number of men to work a train.....the head brakeman had duties besides lookin back at the train....and as stated Pennsy cabs were small but the rules said 3 people on the head end........

[rrboomer]

In this age of the radio, it's hard to remember how the rear end and head end communicated when the train was moving. It was most often by hand signs (lantern at night) over the top of the train.

When the rear end of the train passed an open train order office and got a "Highball", or some other sign) this info was passed to the head end via hand signs. The head brakeman in the doghouse was in position (on top) to receive this sign or to go high on the head car, or even go high and back to where he needed to be to see the rear end sign. I would imagine that climbing over the coal pile in the tender several times was injuries just waiting to happen.

 

[dredmann]

J. Edgar, I think you misunderstood my original response to Robscaboose. My point is that, presumably by the time doghouses became common, the brakemen having to set hand brakes on a moving train was rare. Is this not correct?

I would imagine that once air brakes became standard, setting hand brakes was rarely used to control moving trains. Wasn't the introduction of air brakes nearly a half-century before the standardization of the doghouse (or at least an extended cab for the head-end brakeman)?

[arkansasrailfan]

The Rio Grande used doghouses on top of their narrow gauge engines(like K-27s and k-36s)and some standard gauge engines. I think the Santa Fe also put some on a few of their engines, but i'm probably fooling myself.

[Southwest Chief]

The Rio Grande used doghouses on top of their narrow gauge engines(like K-27s and k-36s)and some standard gauge engines. I think the Santa Fe also put some on a few of their engines, but i'm probably fooling myself.

Might be fooling yourself, I've never seen a doghouse on a Santa Fe steamer.  But yes, D&RGW steamers had them.  Several are still in use on the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railway:

C&TSR Doghouse 

They will come out occasionally on the Durango & Silverton for special photo runs, winter runs, and special paint jobs:

D&S Doghouse