Locomotives as emergency portable generators?

Boyd wrote:

I remember reading somewhere the President of a railroad saying their engines could  be easily converted to emergency generators and make enough electricity to power a small town. I forgot what railroad that was. Wouldn't it have to be an a.c. loco to  do this, and what at what hertz (sp?) is an a.c. loco at?

Some time back, Trains carried a photo of a CN unit that was being used as a power supply in some  Canadian city; the unit had apparently been run down a track in a city street, and then drug some distance further off the rails to a point where its generating capacity could be used...The details are pretty sketchy,in my memory,but I think the details are still pretty accurate.

Boyd wrote:

I remember reading somewhere the President of a railroad saying their engines could  be easily converted to emergency generators and make enough electricity to power a small town. I forgot what railroad that was. Wouldn't it have to be an a.c. loco to  do this, and what at what hertz (sp?) is an a.c. loco at?

It depends on the RPM of the diesel. It doesn't matter though cause on an AC the alternator output is rectified and then powers an inverter that creates an AC current at a frequency determined by the traction motor speed / gearing / windings.

Locomotives can easily be used for supplying power to the grid, but it will need some additional equiptment to get from 600 volt DC to 7200V 60Hz AC. Either a motor / generator or an inverter (a big one) or a way to phase lock and step up the inverter output.

samfp1943 wrote:

Boyd wrote: I remember reading somewhere the President of a railroad saying their engines could  be easily converted to emergency generators and make enough electricity to power a small town. I forgot what railroad that was. Wouldn't it have to be an a.c. loco to  do this, and what at what hertz (sp?) is an a.c. loco at? Some time back, Trains carried a photo of a CN unit that was being used as a power supply in some  Canadian city; the unit had apparently been run down a track in a city street, and then drug some distance further off the rails to a point where its generating capacity could be used...The details are pretty sketchy,in my memory,but I think the details are still pretty accurate.

You cannot make Inverters big enough to feed a neighborhood, much less a town. We are a group of about 500 homes within reach of the tracks and each home needs 60 hertz at 120 volts AC and who knows how many total Amperage to feed each one. Heck the computer Im using is probably the third biggest electric eater behind the laundry and the home air/heat.

There are probably 2000 homes in my town and a few hundred businesses along with phone lines, traffic lights etc etc etc.

It is also my opinion that when someone like me uses the words ..."You cannot..." someone else probably found a way to spend the United States Dollar in sufficient amounts to make it happen.

Safety Valve wrote:

You cannot make Inverters big enough to feed a neighborhood, much less a town. We are a group of about 500 homes within reach of the tracks and each home needs 60 hertz at 120 volts AC and who knows how many total Amperage to feed each one. Heck the computer Im using is probably the third biggest electric eater behind the laundry and the home air/heat. There are probably 2000 homes in my town and a few hundred businesses along with phone lines, traffic lights etc etc etc. It is also my opinion that when someone like me uses the words ..."You cannot..." someone else probably found a way to spend the United States Dollar in sufficient amounts to make it happen.

Actually they can have inverters big enough (if it's not already done, look up the Celeo converter station in Sylmar,Ca.), but it takes $$$$ for expensive and large simiconductors. Much easier to use a motor / generator set.

A locomotive can easily produce 4000-6000 amps, pleanty to supply even the largest neighborhood

ndbprr wrote:

I was at a Menards Hardware this morning that has a Generac unit that runs on natural gas and has an alternator.  This thing had a 2" gas line and was bigger than a full size van to handle emergency power for the store.

Poor fellows...once up a time I used to work on emergency generators, and I never saw a company that took short-cuts like Generac did. I always liked Onan (now part of Cummins) and Katolight much more. Then again, those days are so far removed that the situation might have changed and Generac is much better. It'd be interesting to see what the industry is like these days.

samfp1943 wrote:

Boyd wrote: I remember reading somewhere the President of a railroad saying their engines could  be easily converted to emergency generators and make enough electricity to power a small town. I forgot what railroad that was. Wouldn't it have to be an a.c. loco to  do this, and what at what hertz (sp?) is an a.c. loco at? Some time back, Trains carried a photo of a CN unit that was being used as a power supply in some  Canadian city; the unit had apparently been run down a track in a city street, and then drug some distance further off the rails to a point where its generating capacity could be used...The details are pretty sketchy,in my memory,but I think the details are still pretty accurate.

I remember seeing a picture of that.  The news article made it sound like the engine moved under it's own power down the street tearing up the pavement somewhat. I think they knew they were going to be without power for a couple of weeks so they were willing to trade off the road damage for power.

Enjoy

Paul

.

cprted wrote:

samfp1943 wrote:  Boyd wrote: I remember reading somewhere the President of a railroad saying their engines could  be easily converted to emergency generators and make enough electricity to power a small town. I forgot what railroad that was. Wouldn't it have to be an a.c. loco to  do this, and what at what hertz (sp?) is an a.c. loco at? Some time back, Trains carried a photo of a CN unit that was being used as a power supply in some  Canadian city; the unit had apparently been run down a track in a city street, and then drug some distance further off the rails to a point where its generating capacity could be used...The details are pretty sketchy,in my memory,but I think the details are still pretty accurate. I believe the town is Stewart, BC. I have a friend from Stewart and he told me that the town uses a couple of CN locomotives for power generation. I'm not sure if it is a full time thing, or only as a backup.

Not sure about the name of the town, but otherwise you are correct.

This was done to supply power to a town that was dark due to an incredible ice storm.  The town is in a valley, and the cold air pooled in the valley and when the precipitation began falling, it was rain...but as the rain fell into the cold pool (where everything had already been chilled to many degrees below freezing), all the rain turned to ice on impact.  Some places had ice 4" thick!!  It took many weeks to restore all of the downed lines.

zardoz wrote:

cprted wrote:  samfp1943 wrote:  Boyd wrote: I remember reading somewhere the President of a railroad saying their engines could  be easily converted to emergency generators and make enough electricity to power a small town. I forgot what railroad that was. Wouldn't it have to be an a.c. loco to  do this, and what at what hertz (sp?) is an a.c. loco at? Some time back, Trains carried a photo of a CN unit that was being used as a power supply in some  Canadian city; the unit had apparently been run down a track in a city street, and then drug some distance further off the rails to a point where its generating capacity could be used...The details are pretty sketchy,in my memory,but I think the details are still pretty accurate. I believe the town is Stewart, BC. I have a friend from Stewart and he told me that the town uses a couple of CN locomotives for power generation. I'm not sure if it is a full time thing, or only as a backup. Not sure about the name of the town, but otherwise you are correct. This was done to supply power to a town that was dark due to an incredible ice storm.  The town is in a valley, and the cold air pooled in the valley and when the precipitation began falling, it was rain...but as the rain fell into the cold pool (where everything had already been chilled to many degrees below freezing), all the rain turned to ice on impact.  Some places had ice 4" thick!!  It took many weeks to restore all of the downed lines.

I knew I kept all these magazines for a reason. The news article is in Trains April 1998 page 18.CN MLW M420W 3502 was derailed in the Montreal suburb of Boucherville and moved under its own power 400 feet down the middle of a paved street to serve as a portable generator for the town's civic buildings.

There was a huge ice storm that knocked out the power to 1.35 million customers taking in all of southwest  Quebec, plus some adjoining areas of Ontario, New York state and Vermont in January 1998. It took several weeks to get all the power back. Our daughter and her family servived that storm in Ontario.

CN 3508 was going to provide power at a high school turned shelter, but only made it as far as the 3502. Two other locomotives remained on the rails and provided power in the Quebec towns of Richelieu and Coteau.

CP provided SD40 5417 and a container with a generator.

These moves were provided free of charge.

Barry, Regina

Hi All

The city in question was Boucherville, Quebec, a south shore suburb of Montreal, during the ice storm of 1997 I believe it was. Emergency power generation systems within the city failed and the electrical distribution system in the area was seriously damaged. The hospital and senior's care facilities were without power and so for 3 weeks, as it turned out. The locomotive ( a yard unit if I recall) was run off the end of an industrial spur onto a city street near these critical care locations, Cables at ground level provided power to these facilites and to other public services until the highlines were restored. It was one of a variety of creative substitutes for the standard electrical supply. The weather problem creating this natural disaster was a ground level temperature inversion (fed by an Arctic cold front) which turned a warm high level flow of moisture from south of the Great Lakes, which would otherwise fall as rain, into freezing rain which fell for several days and created ice as much as 6-8" thick. Havoc was the result. These can occur in this area of southern Ontario and Quebec quite easily so don't be surprised if such an event occurs again. High tension transmission towers were broken like matchsticks for miles and Hydro Quebec imported line crews from as far away as BC and the Central US to clean up the mess. It was one of the most recent natural disasters of such proportions to occur in Canada. The crews worked like Trojans. The response knew no borders.

Charlie

ouengr wrote:

Didn't California consider using the old BN B30-7A during the electricty trading crises several yeasrs ago?  I do not know if it ever worked but I remember the discussions.

The Sierra Railroad bought a bunch of those locomotives to use for power generation. As far as I know, it never happened. They did have the information on their website. Unfortunately, now it is only about their dinner trains.

I wonder if many cities today with RR ROWs in them have any kind of contingency plan for this.