Structures at the Fascia

Joe - Welcome to trains.com!

Hi Joe, and to the Forums.

After I finished building P&M Languay's factory, using most of the walls from two Walthers Waterfront Warehouse kits...

...I used some of what was left-over to construct this partial version of the Evell Casket Company:

It ends abruptly at the backdrop dividing the layout from staging and is served by a siding under the staging yard.  The balance of the structure isn't modelled.  The sliced-off wall is .060" sheet styrene, painted the same basic colour as the brick, but left un-weathered.

Here's an aerial view of the same area:

After finishing Evell, I still had some doors and windows left-over from the original warehouse kits, so used them, slightly modified, to build this station.  It's seen here, south of Languay's and behind the coal shed of Creechan's Fine Fuels:

The main parts of the building are .060" sheet styrene, with the exterior walls scribed to represent ashlar stone blocks:

Wayne

Welcome aboard, Brother Parker.

On one layout, a large building three stories high, a yard wide and three inches deep provided a shipping and receiving industry (Bella DeBoll Cosmetics, IIRC) on the track side - and a mounting for the zone control panel on the fascia side.  The panel actually extended below track level.

Jack Burgess, in a recent MR article, simply carried the fascia up the sectioned building, just as if it was a ground contour.

I believe that Mister Beasley has a sectioned building with interior detailing.  John Armstrong was an advocate of the idea, but I don't recall ever seeing one on the Canandaigua Southern.

After carefully considering the idea of sectioning an Armstrong interlocking tower and fitting it with a working lever frame I took two aspirins and went to bed.  By morning I decided that the tower would look better on the far side of the main, well away from the fascia...

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - without buildings on the fascia line)

Yes, I am he of whom he speaks.  This is the Walthers "Arrowhead Ale" background building kit, which I re-badged as the Strumpet Brewery.

I just thought it would be fun to try this narrow building with an interior.  The building is on the back side of the layout, which doesn't get a lot of visibility or foot traffic, but it still didn't look right as an empty shell.

It's not the best interior I've ever done, but some scrap styrene and balsa sticks, and cinderblock, paneling and floor images printed on the computer are easy to do.  This is part of a larger "slice of life" scene including the subway station below.

This structure, by the way, actually sits on a small shelf, hanging out a bit from the layout's edge.  I wanted another industry, and this was one way to put one in without impacting the rest of the layout.

Some of us call those "fascia flats" and one typical approach is just to bring the fascia up to cover the cross-section of the building.

at my module Diamond Valley

Wolfgang

Joe
Just how large a building are we talking about? (the "I don't want a literal fourth wall" comment)
Extended fascia is probably the fastest way to hide the interior.  A blank wall approach would be dependent on the aesthetics of the building.  Is it too shallow to look good as a 4 sided structure (say under 4 inches)?

Doc,

The building would be about 6 3/4" deep, but I'm trying to replicate a prototype area (visit http://chessiemctd.blogspot.com for more details). The prototype building in question is over 200 feet deep, so in order to preserve the look and feel of the prototype area, a scale 48 foot building won't cover it. (Plus the building is about 108 feet wide at trackside. The compressed ratio would be jarring, I think.)

You can get a Google map view at http://maps.google.com/maps?q=wicomico+and+ostend,+baltimore,+md&hl=en&ll=39.278859,-76.629993&spn=0.005307,0.010697&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=44.25371,87.626953&hnear=W+Ostend+St+%26+Wicomico+St,+Baltimore,+Maryland+21230&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.278816,-76.630052&panoid=4xYclnz_Q5tP4E1AUWusdg&cbp=12,92.78,,0,-8.58

Joe

For the right building, I like the idea of an  interior.  Plan to do that for the station on my layout when I get around to building it.  On the other hand, for a very large industry, I'm thinking I my just slice it at the loading dock, so the dock is there, but no building wall.  Sort of as if I'm standing on the loading dock with the building behind me.  That way nothing to block access to the trains.

jmbjmb

For the right building, I like the idea of an  interior.  Plan to do that for the station on my layout when I get around to building it.  On the other hand, for a very large industry, I'm thinking I my just slice it at the loading dock, so the dock is there, but no building wall.  Sort of as if I'm standing on the loading dock with the building behind me.  That way nothing to block access to the trains.

John Armstrong was an advocate of this idea, especially for narrow shelf layouts.  One example he gave for a, `virtual, in the aisle,' industry was an oil refinery.  It consisted of a siding parallel to the fascia, with a loading rack.  All the tanks, retorts and plumbing were virtual.

A club I belonged to had a variant on the, `virtual, in the aisle,' theme - the fascia was detailed as a quay, and the ships were boxes full of waybills.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

Even though it is preferable to not have this happen, Many times buildings like this need to be placed to preserve the layout of the area modeled. Tall building facards especially w/ loading docks become far more than just a view block. If reasonable viewing from an angle it works though.

If carrying the facia upwards to hide the open portion will affect the entire asthetics of your scene, Wayne's blank wall approach may work better. i like the way that blank wall is painted to closely match the overall brick. If the "blank wall" approach seems too stark, you could add the 4th wall and add minor details but use it as a billboard or use sinage. Dry transfers do well for this. To protect buildings like this plexi or better yet Lexan work quite well. we have many area like this @ the club and Lexan panels are a must, not only for clutzes like "Us", but to protect from the public.

Thanks for all the ideas, everyone. I think I'm going to try the blank styrene wall painted the structure color, but unweathered.  I wanted to avoid the open interior, and I don't think bringing the fascia up to cover the building was quite what I was looking for either.

I'll post pictures when I'm done!

Thanks!

Joe

I am facing the same issue and the inevitable issue is, the building is going to be narrower than prototype, and is going to "end" - be chopped at the edge of the layout that is-- at a nonsymmetrical point assuming it goes right to the edge of the layout.

I have seen just about every possible variant on layout tours on how to handle that.  Raising the fascia to cover the side of the building just plain looks odd particularly on what is other a flatland type layout.  Particularly for fascia that is green or tan.  Black might look OK however. 

The open  side/interior view solution is certain dramatic if you care to take the time detailing the interior to look plausible.  Unfortunately we rarely have as good a sense of what the interior of a factory or other large structure looks like as we do the exterior.  And you can easily spend a small fortunte on nice detail parts to make it look nice.  In addition, you need to be thinking along those lines as you build the structure to avoid oversized bracing and other non-scale features.  Most of us use scratchbuilding techniques that work well but do not resemble reality.

I have concluded, for me at least, that a "real" wall is likely the best solution.  But frankly I think the goal should be to make it as much like a real wall as possible -- that is, not just plain brick sheet but have doors and windows and other details and normal painting and weathering, even at the risk of a highly improbable looking structure.  Otherwise it is just going to stick out and become the focus of attention -- "hey Dave, when  are you gonna finish that wall?" -- when that is really the last thing you want. 

Lastly, for any structure that is right at the edge of a layout -- that is where many modelers have plexiglass protection against prodding fingers or protruding stomachs.

Dave Nelson

dknelson

Unfortunately we rarely have as good a sense of what the interior of a factory or other large structure looks like as we do the exterior.  And you can easily spend a small fortunte on nice detail parts to make it look nice. 

Given the current real estate market, why not model an abandoned warehouse or factory.  Just need to focus on walls and girders, possibly rafters or beams.  Dusty, missing or cracked windows and a large "industrial space for sale or rent" sign.

Alan

Doc in CT

Given the current real estate market, why not model an abandoned warehouse or factory.  Just need to focus on walls and girders, possibly rafters or beams.  Dusty, missing or cracked windows and a large "industrial space for sale or rent" sign.

I would save the abandoned building concept for non-trackside industries, though.  A shuttered factory isn't going to have a lot of drop-offs and pick-ups for your switch crew to handle.

Is that section of track functional re: drop-offs or pick-ups in the current layout?  Otherwise abandoned buildings show up in the oddest of places (including one factory tucked in amongst two diverging tracks up in Enfield CT and another next to a track in Windsor Locks CT across from the abandoned passenger station.

dknelson

The open  side/interior view solution is certain dramatic if you care to take the time detailing the interior to look plausible.  Unfortunately we rarely have as good a sense of what the interior of a factory or other large structure looks like as we do the exterior.  And you can easily spend a small fortunte on nice detail parts to make it look nice.  In addition, you need to be thinking along those lines as you build the structure to avoid oversized bracing and other non-scale features.  Most of us use scratchbuilding techniques that work well but do not resemble reality.

I have concluded, for me at least, that a "real" wall is likely the best solution.  But frankly I think the goal should be to make it as much like a real wall as possible -- that is, not just plain brick sheet but have doors and windows and other details and normal painting and weathering, even at the risk of a highly improbable looking structure.  Otherwise it is just going to stick out and become the focus of attention -- "hey Dave, when  are you gonna finish that wall?" -- when that is really the last thing you want. 

Dave Nelson

Dave,

This made me think of something else that might be interesting to try:

Model the interior but not as a wide open space. That is, have an interior wall that runs somewhat parallel to the fascia, but perhaps 1-2 scale feet in from the fascia. That way you can model some of the brick, perhaps some doors, pipes and so on, but not have to spend a fortune on a ton of detail parts.This way, it's obvious that it's a wall, not just waiting to be finished, but also provides the ability to hide many of the scratchbuilding "sins" that are so out of scale.

I like that idea a lot. I'm going to strongly consider it.

Joe

A "structure" though not a building."

My heavy-equipment unloading dock, based loosely on the Santa Fe Standard Plans book, did not have room for a ramp to ground level either on the ends or on the side.  So it just stops aboout a scale 18 inches above the ground at the front of the layout.

There was room for the tractor dealer,

but its wall was likewise butted right up against the front of the layout, which made it easy to see into the service shop.