Ugh, I knew this day would come.
I have a pair of BLI Blueline F7A units that I assigned long address 381 and 382. I set up a consist.
I haven't run this consist recently, but last time I ran it the lights and sound all worked fine.
Today, I start it up and the dual Mars lights come on but the dual headlights do not come on and there is no sound.
First thing I did was to clear the consist and reset each loco to factory default (CV2=8). Edit Note: I meant CV8=8.
Still no headlights or sound.
I know these little buggers have dual decoders, motor and sound/lights.
What can I do to get the headlights to come on and to get the sound on?
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich.
You did not mention the brand of motor decoder installed in these units and what system you use for programming. CV2 is the starting voltage to the motor and has nothing to do with resetting the decoders. Either way the Blueline decoder will ignore any changes to CV2 because it does not drive the motor. There is also a plug on the Blueline decoder that can be switched to another location to have the motor decoder work the lighting also. You also have to press F8 to wake the decoder or move the loco to wake it. BLI recommends locking the decoders using CV15 and 16 but that is wrong. If they are locked then CV19 the consist address will not be able to change. Never lock the decoders!!!
Have you tried the locomotives regular 4 digit address to wake it? The Bluelines I have had always been taken out of consist before they are shut down. I surmise that the Blueline decoder is looking for the regular address and ignoring the consist address and will not wake up until it sees it.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
We have a club member with a Blue Line ALCO RSD-15 that periodically loses its sound. After a lot of e-mail exchanges with BLI they sent a list of CVs to program AFTER the motor control decoder is removed and the jumper plug is put back into the engine, to get the sounds working again.
We have learned by having to go through this several times that a Blue Line decoder cannot be assigned an advanced consist number without losing all sound and light controls.
I don't have the CV listing here, but one thing I do remember is that the NCE PowerPro Radio throttle has to be set to DIRECT programming mode or nothing works with the Blue Line decoder..
locoi1sa Rich. You did not mention the brand of motor decoder installed in these units and what system you use for programming. CV2 is the starting voltage to the motor and has nothing to do with resetting the decoders. Either way the Blueline decoder will ignore any changes to CV2 because it does not drive the motor. There is also a plug on the Blueline decoder that can be switched to another location to have the motor decoder work the lighting also. You also have to press F8 to wake the decoder or move the loco to wake it. BLI recommends locking the decoders using CV15 and 16 but that is wrong. If they are locked then CV19 the consist address will not be able to change. Never lock the decoders!!! Have you tried the locomotives regular 4 digit address to wake it? The Bluelines I have had always been taken out of consist before they are shut down. I surmise that the Blueline decoder is looking for the regular address and ignoring the consist address and will not wake up until it sees it. Pete
Sorry.
I am operating with NCE PH-Pro, 5 amp system. The decoder is an NCE N14IP installed by Factory Trains Direct when I bought the locos new. They are HO scale, for what that's worth.
I have not Locked the decoders.
I had the two F7's (long address 381 and 382) in a consist number 100.
When I started the consist up, the Mars lights lit up but not the headlights and no sound.
So, I removed 382 from the consist, then I cleared the consist. Both 381 and 382 run as single locos with the Mars lights on, but neither loco will produce sound, and I cannot turn on the headlights.
I hate Blueline.
cacole We have learned by having to go through this several times that a Blue Line decoder cannot be assigned an advanced consist number without losing all sound and light controls.
Oh wonderful.
I paid Factory Direct Trains to install the motor decoder (N14IP), so I wouldn't have to mess.
I assigned the two F7A's to an advanced consist.
I have cleared the consist, and each loco runs independently, but no headlights and no sound.
Now what?
locoi1sa CV2 is the starting voltage to the motor and has nothing to do with resetting the decoders.
CV2 is the starting voltage to the motor and has nothing to do with resetting the decoders.
Sorry, I meant CV8=8, not CV2=8, for resetting to factory default.
What DCC system do you have? Just don't used advanced consists, I guess the Blueline sound unit doesn;t support CV9. Use command station assisted conisting, which is the default for Digitrax and availableon NCE (they call it "old style" consisting). Since the decoder(s) are controlled by their normal addrsses when consisting that way, it should work fine.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker What DCC system do you have? Just don't used advanced consists, I guess the Blueline sound unit doesn;t support CV9. Use command station assisted conisting, which is the default for Digitrax and availableon NCE (they call it "old style" consisting). Since the decoder(s) are controlled by their normal addrsses when consisting that way, it should work fine. --Randy
My DCC system is NCE PH-Pro, 5 amp.
Yeah, it sounds like advanced consisting is the problem.
When I bought the two Blueline F7A's (and two Blueline F7B dummies), both F7A's were numbered 38, so I set the long addresses as 381 and 382. When I get the lights restored, I could renumber both long addresses to 38 and run them together without consisting.
Right now, though, my problem is trying to restore the headlights and the sound.
I have had the exact same thing happen to my blueline F-7. it was running along fine and suddenly the headlight and the sound quit. Didn't do anything fancy to cause it, it just quit. Have not investigated anything, not one of my favorite engines so it just sits most of the time. I should contact BLI but haven't so far. I did reset the default settings but that's about it as far as investigation.
I got it !
Here's what I did.
Using my NCE Pro Cab, I Programmed on the Main in the Ops Mode.
First, referencing the long address (381 in my case), I reset the decoder to factory default (CV8=8). The loco lurched. Then I activated the short address (003). That got the sound going and the headlights working. Then, I activated the long address (381). Everything is working.
Then I followed the same procedure for the other loco, long address of 382. Everything is working.
I have not tried to set up a consist at this point, either an advanced consist or an old style consist. But, when I do, I am not sure which way to go, advanced consist or old style consist. or whether to simply make both locos the same cab number and forget the consist numbered approach.
I will decide tomorrow what to do and let everyone know the results.
I still hate Blueline. LOL
POM CV8=8 after you remove all the other decodered equipped equipment. The NCE decoder will ignore the reset because they use CV30=2 for reset. After that call up address 3 and hit F8. This should enable the sounds. The motor decoders will still be on the long addresses. Then POM the new address using the standard pro cab address system.If you have a Power Cab it has the oomph to program the Bluelines on the program track.
Although I have no Blueline diesels I have 6 Blueline steamers that I advance consist all the time without any hitches.
floridaflyer I have had the exact same thing happen to my blueline F-7. it was running along fine and suddenly the headlight and the sound quit. Didn't do anything fancy to cause it, it just quit. Have not investigated anything, not one of my favorite engines so it just sits most of the time. I should contact BLI but haven't so far. I did reset the default settings but that's about it as far as investigation.
What I have come to realize is that if you have a short occur anywhere on your layout, it can adversely affect the lighting and sound on BLI locos, particularly Blueline.
Like you, floridaflyer, I did nothing to the Bluelines, no derailments, no shorts, yet the lights and sound stopped working. Go figure.
Randy,
You are correct.
Using an NCE PH-Pro system, I set up the two locos in an advanced consist.. That worked but, curiously, the headlights on the lead loco were very dim. The sound worked. However, when I turned off the DCC command station, and then turned it back on, the consist ran but no headlights or sound.
So, I killed the consist and reset each loco to factory defaults. With that, each loco had bright headlights and sound.
Then, I set up an old style consist. The headlights were very bright, and the sound worked. I turned off the DCC command station, and then turned it back on. The consist ran, the headlights on the lead loco were very bright, and the sound worked.
In conclusion, an advanced consist with Blueline locos does not work properly, at least on my NCE PH-Pro system.
Good news rich. after reading your post i thought i would try resettting cv8 to default again, and it worked I have sound and headlight. can't figure why it didn't work before but i won't look a gift horse in the mouth.
floridaflyer Good news rich. after reading your post i thought i would try resettting cv8 to default again, and it worked I have sound and headlight. can't figure why it didn't work before but i won't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Good news for you too, floridaflyer. Let me ask you, do sound and lights return immediately upon resetting the decoder to factory default? Or, did you need to reset first to the short address?
When I reset to factory values, I needed to then reset to the short address and then the sound and lights came on. Then, I reset to the long address once again, and the sound and lights remained on.
After a reset you must cycle the power off to the decoder. This is especially important when programing on the main. The Bluelines have glitches but 99 percent of the problems are self inflicted. BLI recommended to lock the decoders after programing and that was a big mistake. Another was poorly written instructions that made setting them up more confusing and difficult for users. I have found that keeping it simple is the best approach. All together there must be 20 to 23 Blueline locos on our clubs layout at any given time. Except for the ones bought with motor decoders already installed I was the one setting up the rest. The ones I have set up use TCS MC2 or the more common T1 decoder. They also have the motor decoders work the lighting also. I instal the decoder and program both together on my program track like there is only one decoder for motor, lights, and sound. Very few CVs with the same number will be conflicting. Most will have the same value no matter what decoder uses that function.
I will also add that to have functions work properly in an advanced consist using CV19, you need to set CVs 21 and 22 to indicate which functions are active in the consist - so you can set the pair so that the whistle blows only on the lead loco, no headlight on the second loco shining on the back of the tender, etc.
Rich, I only have short addresses, so yes it came on with the short address. When I changed the default address back to the address I wanted it quit again, Went back to 03 and it worked, went back to the desired address and it worked, go figure. It will be interesting to see how it performs over time, so I will run it quite a bit to see how she does
floridaflyer Rich, I only have short addresses, so yes it came on with the short address. When I changed the default address back to the address I wanted it quit again, Went back to 03 and it worked, went back to the desired address and it worked, go figure. It will be interesting to see how it performs over time, so I will run it quite a bit to see how she does
Blueline is manufactured by BLI with only a sound decoder. That means that if you want to run it in DCC, you need to add a motor decoder. That is at the heart of the problem. There are two decoders trying to work together. These decoders may need to be reset to factory defaults using different CV's and different CV values. I try to maintain the same long address in each decoder to make adjustments and resets easier.
Rich,
Ive had good luck with Bluelines and my NCE Powercab with advance consisting by programming into CV19 of the Blueline loco(s) the Consist address that the NCE system generates. When Im done with the consist, I clear both the consist and then reset CV19 for the Bluelines to 0.
Brad
tallcapt Rich, Ive had good luck with Bluelines and my NCE Powercab with advance consisting by programming into CV19 of the Blueline loco(s) the Consist address that the NCE system generates. When Im done with the consist, I clear both the consist and then reset CV19 for the Bluelines to 0. Brad
I decided to revive this thread based upon new information that I received on the NCE-DCC forum on Yahoo groups.
Brad (tallcapt) posted the final reply to the original thread, but it seemed to go unnoticed, particularly by me. But, Brad got it right. CV19 is the key to Advanced Consisting with BLI Blueline locos.
I had been using Old Style Consisting with my NCE PH-Pro system, but Old Style Consisting has its own problems, so I wanted to go back and try Adbvanced Consisting.
I recently read that there was a workaround. Here is a description of that workaround.
The workaround is to create the Advanced Consist using your Power Pro in the usual fashion, but to write down the consist address chosen by your Power Pro. You then have to use Programming on Main to manually program the consist address into CV19 of each loco. If the loco is reversed in the consist, you need to add 128 to the consist address (e.g. a loco facing backwards in consist 126 needs a value of 128+126=254 in CV19).
To clear the consist, use CONSIST CLEAR on your Power Pro and then use Programming on Main to manually set CV19 of loco 126 (or whatever your consist address is) to 0. This should clear all locos with consist address 126. If it does not, you will have to do each one individually.
To drop one loco from the consist, use CONSIST DEL on your Power Pro and then use Programming on Main to manually set CV19 of the dropped loco to 0.
This workaround worked for me. I hope that it will be helpful to others.
richhotrain If the loco is reversed in the consist, you need to add 128 to the consist address (e.g. a loco facing backwards in consist 126 needs a value of 128+126=254 in CV19).
Sorry, but this does not seem correct to me. CV19 is a consist address and has nothing to do with direction. If you put 254 in CV19, then the consist address for that loco is 254.
Now, if you really added 1 to some value in CV29, then I'll agree that you changed a direction.
maxman richhotrain If the loco is reversed in the consist, you need to add 128 to the consist address (e.g. a loco facing backwards in consist 126 needs a value of 128+126=254 in CV19). Sorry, but this does not seem correct to me. CV19 is a consist address and has nothing to do with direction. If you put 254 in CV19, then the consist address for that loco is 254. Now, if you really added 1 to some value in CV29, then I'll agree that you changed a direction.
I actually have not tried that part yet, so far just running the two F7As in forward. That excerpt is a verbatim quote from the NCE forum member offering the advice. I will have to try it and report back.
However, since consist numbers range from 1 to 127, my understanding is that this will work to recognize reverse direction.
Edit Note - Here is what Tony's Trains has to say about it.
Advance Consisting is a newer method and has added more flexible. It can also be the most confusing. This method uses the decoder to do all the work and the Command Station only sends out a single command for each operation. The key to Advance Consisting is CV-19. A decoder knows it is in a consist when the value in CV-19 is greater than zero. Advance consists use an address range of 1 to 127 (decimal). Some system only use 1 to 99. This is the same address range as used by 2 digit addressing. This can also cause a conflict if you have a locomotive on layout using the same 2 digit address as used by a consist. The consist address is stored in bits 0 to 6 of CV-19. Bit 7 is used for direction control of the locomotive while in the consist. Bit 7 has a "weight" of 128. If a consist address is 10 then a locomotive facing backward would have a value of (128 +10 =) 138 in CV-19. This is the way the decoder knows which direction to run when it receives a consist speed and direction command. Most systems will automatically add 128 to the address in CV-19 when a locomotive is reversed when you setup an Advanced Consist. If a locomotive is removed from a consist without changing CV-19 to 0, it will not respond to speed commands using the locomotives normal address, but the lights and sounds will work.
richhotrainThe consist address is stored in bits 0 to 6 of CV-19. Bit 7 is used for direction control of the locomotive while in the consist. Bit 7 has a "weight" of 128. If a consist address is 10 then a locomotive facing backward would have a value of (128 +10 =) 138 in CV-19.
Based on this information, you are correct. I forgot that consists are only up to 127. I have NCE also, but I don't normally worry about entering the consist number manually. I just let the system take care of that. Maybe with the BlueLine thing manually is the only option.
If you are simply talking about consisting with CV19, then indeed you add 127 to the value to make it run in reverse - IN THE CONSIST. NCE should do this automatically though when you consist them back to back.
If they are drawbar connected and permanently assigned the same address, then just set CV29 different on one. Or swap the motor wires so it always runs backwards. If you want the lights to work correctly you will have to adjust the basic directional lighting CVs. I did that for my GP7's that run back to back on the same address. Since they have lights on both ends, I set them up so the rear lights won't go on on either one, and the appropriate front light comes on depending on the direction of the consist.
maxman richhotrainThe consist address is stored in bits 0 to 6 of CV-19. Bit 7 is used for direction control of the locomotive while in the consist. Bit 7 has a "weight" of 128. If a consist address is 10 then a locomotive facing backward would have a value of (128 +10 =) 138 in CV-19. Based on this information, you are correct. I forgot that consists are only up to 127. I have NCE also, but I don't normally worry about entering the consist number manually. I just let the system take care of that. Maybe with the BlueLine thing manually is the only option.
maxman, I do the same thing as you. Just let the system take care of it all.
These two F7A Blueline locos are the only Blueline locos that I own and I bought them with the intent of always running them together in a consist with the two dummy B units sandwiched between them. But, Advanced Consisting has always created problems with the Bluelines because of the dual decoder set up. One thing that I like to do is to break the consist to turn each AB set around on a turntable. But breaking the consist and rebuilding it with Bluelines is a project in itself. That is why I am looking for workarounds that permit Advanced Consisting without losing the sound and lights.
Someone should undertake a thorough study and analysis of the consisting issues. Tony's Trains has come close, but there are other workarounds not covered in their analysis.
http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/bline_prog_reports.htm
rrinker If you are simply talking about consisting with CV19, then indeed you add 127 to the value to make it run in reverse - IN THE CONSIST. NCE should do this automatically though when you consist them back to back.
NCE does. In the after market motor decoder, N14IP, CV19 is automatically updated. The problem is the BLI-installed sound decoder which does not update CV19. That's why you have to do it yourself with POM. Apparently, BLI never bothered to consider Advanced Consisting even though the Blueline F7LABC was marketed as a consist.
rrinker I will also add that to have functions work properly in an advanced consist using CV19, you need to set CVs 21 and 22 to indicate which functions are active in the consist - so you can set the pair so that the whistle blows only on the lead loco, no headlight on the second loco shining on the back of the tender, etc. --Randy
Randy, you raise an interesting point. If there is no consist, the two Blueline F7A locos have the Mars light lit and the dual headlights below the Mars light brightly lit. But if I set up a consist with the two locos, the dual headlights are extremely dim although the Mars light stays lit brightly.
Someone on the Yahoo forum said that you have to add appropriate values to CV21 and CV22 to get the headlights to work properly. What would be the appropriate values? And, why are the headlights so dim when an Advanced Consist is set up? Are the two decoders not working together properly?
Odds are pretty good that both decoders don't program - though when doing things like consisting on the main it certainly can't be because of lack of power. Unless the two decoders have somehow gotten their addresses out of sync - though that should be pretty obvious when running the loco singly, because you'd be able to control speed and direction witht he address dialed up but not the horn or bell or other triggerable sounds.
Have to look at a chart, but CV21 and 22 are standardized, different bit values determine which functions are active in consist, so you also have to know which function the mars light is on - headlight is going to be F0. It's something I don't use, since I don;t do CV19 consisting, but I think a value of 255 in both would just make ALL functions active in consist.