Since the phase 1 of rebuilding the club layout has been completed and that phase 2 is still under planning stage, I decided to start working on a small project for my own personnal enjoyment. Since the phase 2 is a rail-marine interface, working on the now famous Erie's Harlem Station was a natural choice.
Many people here will remember my last posts about small layouts. Many of you raised constructive concerns that kept rolling in my mind. Scrolling through Carl Arendt's scrapbooks, I was inspired by Jack Trollope's attempt to recreate the Harlem Station thought important compression. Last summer, I reused my previous 4' x 5' layout benchwork and tried to mock up the terminal with pieces of track and turnouts. I was good, but I felt there was too much compromises from the prototype.
Recently
I rediscovered Jack's work and a constructive conversation with him followed. I quickly succeed in recreating the terminal layout with PECO turnouts as it was between 1928 and 1952. One could build it at full size, about 6' x 5'. However, I find from experience that over 4' one can hardly reach the rolling stock, which is rather important in operating a switching layout. It's for this reason I compressed the terminal to a 60" x 38" irregular parallelogram as the prototype. It can hold 42 cars in the sidings, which is more than you can ask for.
Here's the new layout. I used XtrackCAD to make up the plan and tinkered with it after. Then I printed a full scale CAD drawing that will be used to build the benchwork and locate the tracks.
Testing the CAD plan with reality.
The benchwork is made of lumbers recycled from th old layout. I sawn the 2" x 3" in two halves. It is topped with a 3/8" plywood and a 1/2" fiberboard sheeting (homasote). The CAD served as a template.
I tested the assembled benchwork with the CAD drawing. Discrepancies where around 1mm!
Finally, I also tried to reproduce the second Freight House as built aroung 1928. The overall dimensions were obtained from various maps and pictures available at http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/errhs.html. Feel free to use it if it can help you. I got no picture of the office small side so it's incompleted for the moment. I guess it was the entrance to the offices at the second floor. A small roof with a flight of steps with a double door entrance would fit the bill.
The building is 40' x 70'. Rather small and with the numerous doors, it can manage all box car lengths.
Feel free to comment. I'm also curious to know if somebody here ever built a pontoon-style carfloat apron. Doesn't looks like very hard to build, but I only see the movable type with weight and towers.
Matt
Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.
http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com
http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com
Nifty. I think I'd want to do it full scale - all of those pocket yards around NYC. I take it you are familiar with TIm Warris' CNJ Bronx Terminal, build completely to scale with no compression? That one took some pretty funky trackwork,a dn there's one piece you just can;t do in a scale model - they just laid two piece of shaped rail over other tracks to get to the engine house on that one.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Matt,
that is a very interesting project you have started ! I am eager to see more of it!
hi,
i have a couple of thoughts about the trackplan.
The yard lead can handle only 2 cars, rather few, considering the length of your sidings.
I do not know if your cars are pre-staged, but if the cars on the ferry are not properly blocked, you're having a switch-man's nightmare; this might be your goal however.
A cassette could be the answer........
more fundamental, why did you choose for a table top layout?
Paul
@rrinker: Yes, I could have go with the full scale layout, but that would have been bothersome with the available space I have. Also, I will probably have to move it from time to time. With this size, it will fit in the car.
Tim's CNJ is definitely a masterpiece and I'm nowhere near this guy's craftmanship. That's the reason why I settled for the Erie terminal. Anybody can do it. Having more space, I would have gone full scale. However, we are quite a bunch of people that are inspired by him.
Hi Paul,
I understand your concerns. The yard lead is rather small. A cassette could be an option, but I would have to move the car float, which is the best way to ask for accidents. In fact, in the prototype, the sidings were longer than the yard lead. The switchman nightmare existed.
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However, from an other point of view, the yard lead length is relative to the position of sidings. The last turnout (2 cars + engine), the next turnout (3 cars + engine) and the storage track (5 cars + engine). What I could do to improve operation would be to move the freight house and its related sidings to the right from a couple of inch to get a minimum yard lead capacity of 3 cars. I’ve been thinking about that issue and will probably test both solutions while doing the track work. Keep in mind I’m not planning to operate the sidings at full capacity too. But I have to admit it will be a challenge to deal with the last set of sidings.
The reason I settled for a table top is simple, my "train room" is located in a corner of a slopped roof cottage. Most of the vertical walls have doors, windows, stairs or are impeded by plumbing fixtures and some awkward corners. That said, forget about a decent shelf layout. I tried a lot of thing, but at best, the benchowork was "L-shaped", standing at 36" from the floor and partially obstructed by the roof. I then decided to go for a movable table top layout I can store in the corner and place in the middle of the room to operate the trains.
I had technically the space for the full-size layout, however, trying to uncouple cars located in the middle of a 5'x6.5" layout isn't my cup of tea. I never go over 24" for my club's shelf layout from experience and I'm not a tall man so my reach is somewhat under the norm!!! So, even if it was conceived as a tabletop, I decided to design it with the same considerations. I see it as a shelf layout wrapping around a zero-lenght wall. Anyway, some folks could take the Erie terminal and unroll it around a wall as a shelf layout without losing the
Thanks for your interest in this project.
Hello folks,
Someone asked me why I didn't built it at full size. I was a little bit concerned about space, in fact, the space it takes to move it in a car or to clear my staircase. Also, Paul's comment bothered me for a while, oh yes, in a bad way, the kind that pushes you forward!
Then, I came back to my original idea of splitting it in two separate parts. Looks like even Tim Warris did it.
Since I'll have some adjustment to do with my benchwork, I decided to redraw the entire layout at full size from old maps and pictures and start again. At least, it will fit my layout room.
The nice thing is now the carfloat is completely integrated to the layout (safer) and I can even add a tugboat, which is a nice addition. The red line shows the place where both parts meet. I also added the first freight house, an interesting piece to scratchbuilt. With this track plan, you can model the area between 1928 & 1952.
BTW, the smallest radius is 14", about 100' in real life. Who said small radii weren't prototypical... Maybe I should use 30" radius to ensure my big boy and passengers cars can run! Don't mind, I don't own a big boy! The good thing is that PECO turnouts fits perfectly most of the real trackage.
The yard lead can hold 3 x 40' boxcars with an engine, which is prototypical.
I think you will be much happier. The real railroads had enough trouble squeezing it all down to the size they did - to make it even SMALLER would probably be an operation nightmare. Those pocket yards around NYC were already 'selectively compressed' on the prototype.
Be waiting to see the progress. Should be a winner, 1:1 duplication of an actual prototype.
Thanks for you encouragements Randy. It wasn't worth to compress it to save only 1 feet. I felt like everybody, myself included, would always complain about that. Splitting the layout in 2 addressed the issue. BTW, no car is beyond a reach of 24 inch, which respects my operation standards.
rrinker I think you will be much happier. The real railroads had enough trouble squeezing it all down to the size they did - to make it even SMALLER would probably be an operation nightmare.
I think you will be much happier. The real railroads had enough trouble squeezing it all down to the size they did - to make it even SMALLER would probably be an operation nightmare.
When you see the CNJ terminal and others of same design, you understand the cost of building complex trackwork to save any square feet possible was nothing compared to the space constrain and land price.
Anyway, I tested the yard lead on paper this week to compare the prototypical 3-car scenario VS the 2-car scenario. The answer is clear!
Fortunately, the mock up was made out of salvage wood...
Looks like it will be an interesting build. I've watched Jack's on a different forum and it was good. Good luck.
Horsepower is good.
SailormatlacI rediscovered Jack's work and a constructive conversation with him followed.
chutton01 Sailormatlac: I rediscovered Jack's work and a constructive conversation with him followed. Do you mean this Jack's Erie Harlem yard?
Sailormatlac: I rediscovered Jack's work and a constructive conversation with him followed.
Yes, we are talking about the same Jack's Erie Harlem. He told me he was interested in building it full-size first but had to face major space shortage that prevented him to do so (house and car). The lightly compressed version I proposed here was done so it could respect the 2010 Challenge (2010 square inches) in which Jack entered his own version.It would need a little bit of adjustment to do so but with no real impact on the trackage.
I'm actually designing the two-part benchwork in a similar fashion as Tim Warris did with his CNJ Bronx since I find his metho is worth a try.
However, I'll cut out the fancy aluminium clamps system since I won't tour the country with the layout as Tim is doing. Locking devices will be made out of hardwood.
Turnouts are expected to arrive in the next 2 weeks. I'll propably start building the benchwork in early December, when my bathroom renovation will be completed. The antique clawfoot bath tub is being restored and take all the place in the future layout room.
I still don't know if I'll use roadbed for the trackage since the track is on the ground. I was flirting with the idea of covering everything with a 1/2" homasote sheet since I'm afraid gluing the track directly on plywood will cause major noise issues.
I updated my old blog to get track of my layout endeavour: http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com
Here's a new picture showing you discrepancies between old pictures from the mid-30's and the 1928 G.W. Bromley map. Insurance maps are habitually reliable, but when it comes to trackage, they sometimes show you that the surveyor didn't see everything or hadn't access to all the site.
There used to be a photo of it in one of the editions of Track Planning for Realistic Operation. One of the first pictures of the AGEIR boxcab actually working. I used to have a ton of info on those sinc emy grandfather used to work at the Philipsburg NJ plant where they used one as a plant switcher and there was some sort of big deal when they retired it in which they gae out a lot of information, I wish I knew where that was.
Hi folks,
Just to let you know I started a new Harlem Station layout MkII. A few people pestered me over the years to rebuild and complete the project which I decided to do about 3 weeks ago. So far all tracks are laid and painted. Concretes pads are done and I'll start scenery as soon as possible.
Track plan and benchwork are from scratch using better data. I'm quite confident the track arrangement is as close as possible to prototype without using handlaid track. I had to sift through many old pictures, aerial photographs and maps to piece together that puzzle but it was worth the efforts. Except the carfloat, everything will be scratchbuild or kitbashed. Fortunately, no a lot of structures standed there. My unrealistic goal is to finish this project from by the end of the year.
More details can be found on my blog.
http://harlem-station.blogspot.ca/
Good to see this coming along now. A really fascinating concept, so very much looking forward to how you go about it.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman Matt, Good to see this coming along now. A really fascinating concept, so very much looking forward to how you go about it.
Thanks Mike, this is truly a fun project to put together.
Some progress shots:
Very interesting track arrangement with all trailing point tracks so no need for a run around track. There was a recent post about Lance Midhiem's minimalist industrial layout that generated quite a debate on the need for, or no need for, run around tracks. This would be good proof for the no run around crowd.
Ray