Armoured presidential train.

Murphy;

The Car, US #1 (Ferdinand Magellan) has quite a history. 

 Now it is in the Gold Coast RR Museum in MIami. It is designated  as a National Historic Landmark. 

 Here is a link to one of the more interesting sites about it:

http://www.nps.gov/history/NR/travel/presidents/us_car_number_one.html

    Thanks for the link.  That was an interesting link.  The article says it was presented to the President in 1942.  He must have had some sort of armoured car before then, as the book I'm reading is about pre-Pearl Harbor, 1940-41.

When President Roosevelt traveled about during the war years his trips and routes were top secret.  The host railroad provided the power and tried their best to make the train appear normal as to blend in with the others.

Prior to the trip several series of events took place to insure security.  A dummy train proceded the real one using a decoy locomotive and consist, along with back up locomotives strategically placed along the route.  There were to be no conflicts on the route as to the scheduling of freight or other passenger trains, these trains were stopped about an hour prior to the passing of the Presidents train.  Railroad police, Secret Service and local police and sheriff's provided track side security including stations, crossing and critical area's of the route, water locations and inspected the coal to assure it was a top quality.  Sabotage threats were investigated and sometimes resulted in military forces guarding the area.  The Horseshoe Curve in Altoona was one area under guard for quite a period of time when it was discoved the mountain area was a target of German spy's.

 The presidential car, not sporting a name or number (Ferdinand Magellan, US #1) was armored, the others were not.  A B&O combine car was converted to a communications car for his disposal to keep in contact.  The car kept its B&O number 1401.  The necessary antenna was placed on the roof but disquised in a copper tubing.

As the train went over the undisclosed route host railroads provided motive power and usually top ranking supervisors rode in the locomotive or in some cases operated it.  Your bring up a good point about amoring the locomotive, derailing it, armored or not if it were sabotaged, it would have happened.  And if a locomotive were to break down could you imagine the cost of providing armor to every locomotive involved in these trips?

 Is this the car you are talikng about? I saw this on the History Channel sometime ago but no mention of anything but the car.

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If you catch the New York episode of the History Channel's Cities of the Underground, the show takes you under the Waldorf-Astoria for a look at the hotel's "secret train station." FDR's armored rail car was left there after his death and it has the marking of "MNCX 002 (MW)" on it. The show also goes far below Grand Central Terminal and shows the secret electrical distribution station called M42 which is actually several times larger than the Grand Central concourse above. Railroad buffs should track down the episode because a good chunk of the show is dedicated to exploring these two spots.

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Rich

Rich:

     The existance of the underground train station at the area of the Waldorf Astoria Hotel accessed by tracks from the Grand Central Station complex has almost become something of an Urban Ledgend (or maybe more correctly a myth?).  Thee is or was a freight elevator shaft and doors at one of the side streets by the Hotel that was an access for Roosevelt's Automobile ( carried in the Baggage-style cars that called at the underground platform). It was apparently one of these cars that was somehow abandoned at the underground location for a number of years ( it carried MofW identification).  This information was in one of the television shows done about this location. ( Can't remember which show it was, but it was possibly, History Channel). 

There is probably a good chance that the "Magellan'  had called at this underground location on occasions. As we are all now are aware of F. Roosevelt's infirmity of polio and his need for braces and wheel chair access.

In the 1940's age of steam the movements of POTUS by rail had to have been a logistical nightmare of the orchestration of dummy trains, extra steam locomotives, and crews for the railroads involved. Just think of the logistics of a trip from Washington, D.C. to Warm Springs, Ga. and what some movement such as that would create in the way of headaches for the handling railroad('s). 

I saw this particular car, MNCX 002  on it on the History Channel about a year ago complete with photos of the FDR era and video shots made with color video so it could not be too old a video. The Waldorf Astoria Hotel was included in the program. The History Channel sells the video if anyone is interested. It sure did not look like myth. History Channel's Cities of the Underground is the title of the video.

Maybe the History Channel has been led astray.

The rest of the train was never mentioned as the program was really about the undergound.

But then, I have talked with people who saw a program on TV some years ago that "proves" NASA never sent men to the moon. It was all fake. 

Rich

There was an article on a modern POTUS train in the November 2000 (the Trains 60th Anniversary issue) Trains from the perspective on an engineer on one of the trains on George W. Bush's campaign train on August 4, I believe. The story is on page 19, and photos are on pages 20 and 21. I think the cars he rode in had armor plating added to the walls and rear platform. You might read the article for more info - I don't have the time now.

 PULEASE let's put "secret armored car" crap to bed once and for all. The history channel has deteriorated to a dumbed down television equivalent of the National Enquirer.

If, as they claimed, the car has been forgotten and untouched since FDR died then who put Metro North reporting marks on it? Metro North was formed in 1983, 28 years after FDR. It is obviously an old bag car probably used for roadway tool and material or some such. Notice that the history channel didn't try to open it and look which would have popped their fantasy balloon.

richg1998

 

I saw this particular car, MNCX 002  on it on the History Channel about a year ago complete with photos of the FDR era and video shots made with color video so it could not be too old a video. The Waldorf Astoria Hotel was included in the program. The History Channel sells the video if anyone is interested. It sure did not look like myth. History Channel's Cities of the Underground is the title of the video.

Maybe the History Channel has been led astray.

The rest of the train was never mentioned as the program was really about the undergound.

But then, I have talked with people who saw a program on TV some years ago that "proves" NASA never sent men to the moon. It was all fake. 

Rich

It was a MOVIE called Capricorn One, a forgotten film from the 1970s.

Well, in my opinion, the "History Channel" is full-of-s***.  I think that is the same program that showed the Pennsylvania's "Broad Way Limited" departing from GCT.  There are two track, northeast of "Tower C", in GCT,  that have a platform and a dedicated elevator from the Waldorf-Astoria.  This is where the Ferdinand Magellan may have parked.  I have never seen any pictures of it there. I believe HST and DDE both used the car.  It has been in the Miami area for a long time, at the "Gold Coast" museum, and was ravaged by hurricane Andrew.  They just happen to be conducting a fund-raising for restoration of the exterior, I believe, at this time.

"Secret Electrical Distribution Station M-42"?  Hang on!  Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny will be along, shortly.

Hays

 Overland Models built the Magellan in HO Scale, in the Truman (which I have) and Reagan eras.  I'm not sure if any president used it after Reagan.

Mark

Hi.  After it was damaged (well, hardly. . . long story) by Hurricane Andrew in '92 I was the historic preservation specialist employed by FEMA to direct the restoration of the Ferdinand Magellan.  Being also a major railfan and having done other rail-related preservation work I did much homework boning up in the Magellan's real story to prepare for the restoration task.  Here are a few items I am quite sure of as being accurate facts:

1.  The rail car now parked beneath the Waldorf in NY probably isn't related to the historically known collection of vehicles which were held in service specifically for U.S. Presidents.

2.  The Magellan is one of a small class of similar vehicles built by Pullman and named after famous explorers in or about 1928.  Prior to the outbreak of WWII FDR had more often used another car from this class.

3.  In 1941 the Army had the Magellan pulled from regular service and rebuilt to be the first rail car specifically reserved for Presidental use.  The old "Pioneer," built by the Army in or around 1865 for Lincoln, was only used to carry his body home to Springfield, IL after his assassination, so I'm not counting that (alas, lost) vehicle.  When FDR used the car it kept its original Pullman paint scheme and bore no exterior sign of its special use.  In one instance it made the trip from Washington DC to Dinner Key in Miami, whence FDR departed by plane for Casablanca, without drawing much attention at all.

4.  Most but not all of the Magellan is armored.  If, starting at the forward end of the car, you run your fingers along the inside lip of the body overhang, just aft of the kitchen area is where you'll bump into the armor plating.  I guess cooks were thought to be expendible.  After the hurricane we had to look as far as Israel for an accurate replacement source for the bulletproof glass.  The body of the vehicle was 'sandblasted' by the hurricane, and intentionally again during restoration, this time using crushed walnut shells, a much better material for historically sensitive restoration work, before being given a 100% accurate new exterior finish, gold leaf included.

5.  The History Channel totally sucks as a source for accurate information about just about anything.

6.  The underground platform beneath the Waldorf in New York has been used by several presidents and first ladies.  There is an elevator on site which was built and used for the specific purpose of moving FDR's limo to street level from its traveling position on the train.

7.  Whenever there was a POTUS trip (President Of The United States) the route was specially inspected, guarded, and a pilot train was run not very far in front of that bearing the Magellan and its associated cars for protection.  An armored engine was never used, nor do I think one was ever even built for this or related purposes.  Anything that could blow up a bridge, rail or interrupt a rail joint was not something engine armoring could prevent so there was no point in trying to do so.  General wartime security, far more extensive than anything seen since, made an expected contribution to the security of presidential travel because all railroads and railroaders were aware of needs, techniques, do's and don'ts for sensitive movement by rail. 

The Magellan was, in its time and may still be today, the heaviest passenger rail vehicle built.  There were occasions where travel routes had to be adjusted or special precautions taken because of the Magellan's excessive weight.  I can't remember the exact quote, but one engineer whose train had the presidential cars in its consist said something like it was like trying to pull a train with an anchor stuck out the back end.

Lots of people, when they see the Magellan now at the Gold Coast Railroad Museum, expect something quite different than what they find.  The interior of the Magellan is surprisingly ordinary.  In fact, there isn't anything especially elegant or fancy about it.  It remains today in very close to its original appearance from its Presidential days, except that the special elevator which made up part of the rear platform for FDR's use was removed shortly after his death.

Despite what the people at Vizcaya, Miami's beautiful but fairly typical robber-baron-mansion-turned museum say, the Magellan is South Florida's first National Historic Landmark.  When I was later director of the county historic preservation division, the Vizcayans really didn't like it when I pointed out that that is an accurate statement.

One last thing:  on the night Hurrucane Andrew struck South Florida in 1992, the Magellan sat on display under a steel-framed 'train shed' roof at the museum.  The museum's security director and his wife spent the night inside the Magellan for a couple of reasons:  they lived in a trailer and trailers aren't good places to be during hurricanes; he wanted to keep a close eye on the site because very bad news was expected, and the Magellan is armor-plated (he was a very smart man as well as a pleasure to know, as was his wife).  He told me several days later that they weren't even certain that the loud noise they heard during the hurricane was the steel shed collapsing onto the Magellan because of the ambient noise from the storm.  They were only certain the next day when they had some light.  The main reason they weren't sure is that because whatever it was that made the noise, it didn't do much damage at all to the car, as far as they could tell.  And the collapse, they both said, didn't seem to shake the car any more than the wind did, except that after the collapse the car didn't shake as much as before (duuuhhhh...).

Somebody did a good job building that thing.

Gene Barfield

The History Channel?  Do you mean the channel that does a UFO exposé two or three times every day?

The old Bagage car in GCT is NOT part of POTUS train.

 it was never in GCT till 1985 when it was placed in GCT as part of the GCT wreck train.

The car was one of 3 bagage cars bought from Penn central estate .

 One went to old  Wire train in stamford ( car is now at Danbury railway museum)

 one car was scapped

 and one was converted to sling/block car for double ended GCT crane, it was painted at North White plains in 1984 and renumbered with the MNCX reporting marks..

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2750984390054618804cMPDpV

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2555825620054618804IPIuAH

The doors are not big enough to push a yugo through.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2279069660054618804WkENIr

 Doors for cars needed to be huge or the car was loaded over ends via car doors, both of which the GCT bagage car lacks

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2436498000054618804WzfHVQ

COTS on truck is 9 / 1985

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2256563080054618804xOXmPx

 http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2266197590054618804sTlRBZ

The car is not armoured but a standard rivited Bagage car from early 1900's

all pictures were taken in 2008 and interior is in great condition.

navyman636

7.  Whenever there was a POTUS trip (President Of The United States) the route was specially inspected, guarded, and a pilot train was run not very far in front of that bearing the Magellan and its associated cars for protection.  An armored engine was never used, nor do I think one was ever even built for this or related purposes.  Anything that could blow up a bridge, rail or interrupt a rail joint was not something engine armoring could prevent so there was no point in trying to do so.  General wartime security, far more extensive than anything seen since, made an expected contribution to the security of presidential travel because all railroads and railroaders were aware of needs, techniques, do's and don'ts for sensitive movement by rail. 

At th risk of "flogging a dead horse': 

Presidential Car, U.S.#1; aka 'The Ferdinand Magellen'

 currently resides at the Gold Coast Museum. Museum linked here:

 http://www.goldcoast-railroad.org/magellan.htm

This is the originally posted link to the US#1 history by Nat'l Park Service:

http://www.nps.gov/history/NR/travel/presidents/us_car_number_one.html

an inbteresting note from TRAINORDERS.com web site is as follows:

http://www.goldcoast-railroad.org/magellan.htm
>
> The car was last used in government service in the
> late 1950s.

From that website:

"In September, 1984, the Gold Coast Railroad Museum decided to take the Ferdinand Magellan to Washington, D.C. to participate in a national convention of railroad enthusiasts and for inspection by the National Park Service to determine it's eligibility as a National Historic Landmark. Since the car was going to be in Washington during the presidential election campaign, the Museum asked the whitehouse staff if President Ronald Reagan would like to make a speech from the rear platform of the famous car. The whitehouse suggested that the President use the car for a one day, whistle stop campaign trip between Dayton and Toledo, Ohio.

The arrangements were made and the trip took place on October 12, 1984, leaving Dayton at 9:00 A.M. (09:00) and traveling 120 miles (197 km) to Toledo, making five stops along the way. At each stop, President Reagan made a speech to a large crowd gathered around the rear platform of the railcar. In each speech, he made reference to the historical significance of the car from which he was speaking. The trip was very complicated from a security standpoint. It involved about 1,000 police and Secret Service agents. An officer was stationed every .25 mile (400 m) in the woods alongside the railroad right of way and heavy equipment blocked every roadway grade crossing. President Reagan said that the trip was the highlight of his campaign and that he would rather travel by train than airplane any day. At the conclusion of the trip, the President met with representatives of the Gold Coast Railroad Museum and extended his thanks for the use of the car. The car then returned to Miami and was placed back on public display."

I'll never forget seeing the car when Truman was running in 1948 and doing his whistle stop tour of CA.  Also, it was my first time to see "streamliner" diesels pulling that train [ S.P. 3 unit power].

CNW 6000

navyman636:

7.  Whenever there was a POTUS trip (President Of The United States) the route was specially inspected, guarded, and a pilot train was run not very far in front of that bearing the Magellan and its associated cars for protection.  An armored engine was never used, nor do I think one was ever even built for this or related purposes.  Anything that could blow up a bridge, rail or interrupt a rail joint was not something engine armoring could prevent so there was no point in trying to do so.  General wartime security, far more extensive than anything seen since, made an expected contribution to the security of presidential travel because all railroads and railroaders were aware of needs, techniques, do's and don'ts for sensitive movement by rail. 

 

I remember when GHWB was on a (re)election trip by rail he came through the Oshkosh, WI area.  He took the "old" SOO line alignment through downtown...so this would be about 1992(?).  I don't recall what he used for his car but it was dark green and I want to say there were 3 cars.  WC provided power for the train, I think it was an SD45.  Prior to the President's train coming through another locomotive running light power, albeit with obvious gun-toting security-you could see the rifles, was running less than 5 minutes ahead of the POTUS train.

With the possible exception of the use of armour plate on the rail car, I doubt modern day security measures would be any less than in times past. 

"Inventory at Vemork amounted to 1,350 pounds of heavy water and 14 tons of other fluid, to be shipped to Germany in 29 large drums. These were shipped by rail from Rjukan to Lake Tinnsjo where the train cars were placed on-board a train ferry, named the Hydro, on the way to the open sea and Germany.

British intelligence learned of the shipment and worked with local Norwegian resistance to get details of timing, at great personal risk. Three agents, Norwegian Knut Haukelid and two others from the Norwegian underground, travelled the lake on the same ferry, but 48 hours before the heavy water shipment arrived. At that time, the ferry was unsecured. They placed bombs on the ferry, with a timer that would explode when the Hydro, with the heavy water shipment, reached the center of the 1,300 foot-deep lake. At 10:00AM in the morning on 20 February 1944, the time bombs blew up the Hydro as planned. The German atomic program went to the bottom of the lake, along with 14 Norwegian civilians and 4 German soldiers."

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_history_ww2_stories_germanatomicsnorway.php

From the same era, this is interesting. Rather than directly attack the train, sabotage what it rode upon. All the King's horses and all the King's men were not needed to bring Hitler's atomic project to an end.

TV ALERT

History Channel tonight at 5 PM CST
"Modern Marvels: Presidential Movers"
Presidential planes, trains, and automobiles become high tech cocoons.

There may be some new info on this show.

I think the train segment of the show is over by now.  It didn't cover anything new, sadly...but they did show the car (Ferdinand Magellan) and it sure looks sharp!

I like to watch for howlers on the History Channel, too.  Once, during a series on the American revolution, I heard a solemn announcer tell of the British sending a small invasion force southwest from Montreal to circle around and attack the Mohawk Valley of New York from the west.  The announcer said it first went up the Saint Lawrence Seaway.  Which, of course, was not finished until the Eisenhower Administration.

And don't get me started on their gaffes about the Roman Republic, Principate, and early Empire.  I don't expect the average person to know that the Roman Empire existed for over 200 years before there was an Emperor.  But I expect better from an entity named "The History Channel."

Jack

The siding in the Waldorf Hotel basement was used for the display of the first or second UP Pullman-built articulated streamliners, the first time a diesel entered the GCT complex, pulled and spotted by electrics, of course.

If anyone has an HO Truman-era Ferdinand Magellan (Overland) that they might be willing to part with, please contact me at jerry@pennsyrr.com. Thanks.

On another occasion he (President Coolidge)  kept a welcome delegation waiting more than 20 minutes at Washington DC’s Union Station while he finished watching a western film on the train.

http://www.moviemoviesite.com/People/C/coolidge_calvin.htm

More than security precautions involved could interfere with making the trains run on time.